Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Hey, it's Jeff, and welcome to the first episode of the home Builder marketing and growth show. Today I'm super excited to have my most favorite human being here with me, my wife and partner, Serena Schneider. We're kicking off the first episode here together. So a little bit of background about velocity 23. We've been in business since 2006. I started off as a freelancer and then I built an agency. And in 2011, we had our first real estate project that we started on, and it went amazingly well. 2012, we started attracting a whole bunch of homebuilder clients, and Serena joined me and we've been running the business ever since 2012. So we've been doing home builder marketing and real estate marketing for ages, and we've been on the front lines and we've seen it all. And so today I'm really excited to talk with Serena. We're going to talk about blog content and premium content, and Serena really is an expert in this area. She has written and edited over a thousand pieces of content in that time. So she knows what she's talking about, she knows what works. So I'm super excited to have her on the show with me here today. Serena, welcome.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Thanks for having me.
[00:01:16] Speaker A: So episode number one, I'm super excited about this. We've been talking about doing a podcast forever, and we're finally getting it going.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: Yep. It's exciting. Another new phase.
[00:01:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm stoked about it. So we got a lot of great, we've got a lot of great guests lined up already for the show. We're going to be talking about everything that has to do with home builder marketing. We're going to be doing segments, mini segments on marketing for builders, sales, tips, hacks. We're going to have a little mini segment on HubSpot, and then we're going to have our longer segments where we're interviewing guests and really diving into, like, people's experiences and their different areas of special specialty and expertise. So it's going to be really, really exciting. Lots of great content to come.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: I'm excited to be able to share, you know, tips and tricks and to help people do better.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: For sure. For sure.
Awesome. Okay, so we're talking about blog content.
[00:02:19] Speaker B: We are.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: We are. So.
[00:02:21] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:02:23] Speaker A: First question I want to ask you today is what is a commonly held belief about blogging or blog posts that you passionately disagree with?
[00:02:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
More, more. Everybody seems to think I just need to get content out there. People still to this day, we see people who are focused on. I have to put out at least two pieces a week? No, no, you don't like stop. Because the key thing, and especially in today's age with AI and people just flooding with random content to try and rank, you need to have quality. It's not about quantity, it's always about quality. So you can take a piece of content and only write one blog article a month, but if that is helpful and informative and, you know, researched and people are looking for it and need that information, that's going to do a thousand times better than having four pieces of crap like it really is. You know, and when you look at, I mean, blogging and content has been going on for years and years and years. Like the Internet is just flooded with a lot of stuff that is just garbage. It really is.
So that is a whole nother point that I might get a sense to address. We'll see if we don't run out of time.
But quantity is not what you need to be shooting for. Always quality. Always quality, number one.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Like a good mix between a good balance between quality and quantity. Obviously, you don't only want to put out one blog post a month, but you don't want to be hitting up chat GPT and blasting out AI generated content, which is what a lot of marketers are doing in this day and age, too.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: So, yeah, I think with AA coming in, you know, it's really, Neil Patel actually was just talking about how the latest Google update is definitely looking at the difference between AI generated content and human generated content. You know what I mean?
And AI is a great tool. It's a great help. But if you come to depend on and can't do without AI, you've gone too far.
[00:04:50] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a really good point. It's just another tool in the tool belt.
[00:04:54] Speaker B: Exactly. And AI isn't infallible either. You know, I have, you know, been researching content and come across an article and the stat is very clearly wrong. You know, someone has created a piece of content with AI and not researched, done the background on it. Like, just because AI spit it out doesn't mean it's right.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:15] Speaker B: And again, that leads back to your quality, right?
[00:05:17] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's a great tool for doing the heavy lifting. And I think, like a lot of clients ask me about it because we write so much content, they're like, well, do you use AI? And like, yeah, we do. But the great thing about using AI is that I always tell clients that it helps you to get that messy first draft done you still have to fact check, you still have to make sure your brand voice is good, and you still have to make sure that you're delivering value. And the one thing I think too, with AI is that a lot of content that's generated by AI is just kind of regurgitating what else is out there. And so you have to focus on what is your unique angle. And oftentimes that's not something that AI can do that takes expertise and knowledge and experience.
The one thing that's often overlooked with AI is that really good content is coming from a standpoint of experience and AI has zero experience. It's never experienced anything. So you can't get that unique angle from AI.
[00:06:26] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: What do you think that everyone should stop doing in relation to blogging? I know we just kind of talked about reducing quantity over quality, but when it comes to actually writing blog posts, what do you think is one thing that everybody should stop doing?
[00:06:44] Speaker B: I think it's, it might be it's a little bit more prevalent in real estate as an example, but you need to stop talking about yourself, stop talking about yourself. Stop at it.
You know, you, I have lost track of how many times I've come across a blog and it's like, look at what we've done, look at what we're doing, look at this new thing we have. Check out our new promotion. And none of that is helpful to somebody who's looking for information with the odd case of someone who's actually specifically looking for, say, a promotion. But so many times people don't look at content as a user. Like, I use the Internet all the time. I Google stuff all the time. I just had to google something this morning for one of our staff members because he turned off his Bluetooth by accident and then couldn't turn it back on because his mouse was Bluetooth. You know what I mean? But if I were to google that and come across a whole bunch of like, look at how great we are at connecting Bluetooth. I don't care how great you are at connecting Bluetooth. I want to know how you did it. Yeah, I want to know what's helpful for me.
[00:08:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: And so many content marketers and so many writers don't write from the perspective of the user.
Like, you have to put yourself in the user's place. Stop writing as the director of marketing for so and so company and start writing as the person you're trying to attract.
If you were looking for that information, what would you want to see?
[00:08:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:27] Speaker B: And go and start from there because so many, so many people. And like I said, it's definitely more in the real estate industry, but I see it in tons of other things, too, you know what I mean? Where it's like, we did this and we did that, and case studies, those are great people who are looking for those, that's actively what they're using for. You've written for those people.
Case studies are an anomaly or a separate topic. Excuse me, but so many people in this industry don't write for their users. They write for what they want their users to know about them. Yeah, your users don't care. I'm sorry, they don't.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's, that's a really good point. I mean, we often talk about bucketing for content, right? And when it comes to blog posts, there's basically three different buckets that your blog content should fall into. And that should be, number one, should be educational because buying a home, there's a lot to know about. It's one of the biggest purchases, it's the biggest purchase that most people will make in their life, and there's a lot of education required. And so you should be writing that educational content because that's what people are researching. We know the buying journey can be many months to many years, depending on the type of buyer Persona and the type of product and their stage of life. There's a lot of education required. So you should be writing educational content first. And then secondly is you should be writing content that is specifically optimized for Google around a keyword that's going to help you traffic to your website. And so obviously that content needs to be relevant to what you do or relevant to, you know, the city that you live in and build in and that sort of thing.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: Well, and even to go along with that point, like, even though you're writing to get traffic, you still have to think about the people who are looking for that. You know what I mean? Like somebody who's looking for the home builder in your city, you know, they're not going to, you have to think about what they're gonna type into the search engines and write accordingly. You know, it's still not just writing for ranking.
[00:10:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: You can hear people still to this day are dealing with the horror stories of the agency that they hired that they thought, you know, we can get you ranked on the first week of Google, but that's because every single little snippet of code on their site is stuffed with keywords or whatever. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Search engines don't like that anymore. They really don't.
[00:11:00] Speaker A: And there again, like you said, it doesn't matter what kind of content you're creating, you have to write it with the user intent.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: Exactly right.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: Like we do mystery shops in show homes locally here in Edmonton. And like, how difficult was it for us just to find a list of the new developments in Edmonton? I mean, like, there's a huge untapped opportunity there for home builders just to have lists or create content of all the new developments in a particular city.
[00:11:36] Speaker B: You know, sorry, that just going back to the quality thing and writing for your users, tying that into the two topics, and they don't want to know about you or they don't care about you, I should say so many people are afraid to talk about other builders and other developments. Don't be afraid of it.
They're going to find that information one way or another. If they find it from you, you build a little bit more credibility in the trust bank with them.
And the fact that you're able to be, I don't know, strong enough in your company to stand tall and be like, yeah, no, we don't build in this community, but it has some great features, you know, speaks volumes about you as a company and speaks volumes about the fact that you are not afraid.
You know, I mean, that everybody knows. A classic example from Market Sheridan and the pool company. Like, everybody knows that.
[00:12:37] Speaker A: Well, that's like, who takes it to heart?
[00:12:40] Speaker B: Yeah, sorry.
[00:12:43] Speaker A: No, I was going to say that that's like one of the common objections that we get when we're talking with a prospect or talking with a client about creating content, especially about educational content, they're like, well, that information already exists out there. It's like, yeah, it does, but they could get it from you. And if they get it from you, you're building rapport, you're building trust. You're positioning yourself as a helpful advisor. I mean, the positioning alone from creating content like that and delivering that kind of content is huge. And if you can position yourself as somebody that has helped educate a prospect so that they make the smartest buying decision for their situation, you have a huge advantage over any other builder out there. And so just because the content already exists on the Internet somewhere else, I really think that that's still a huge advantage. Well, we've proven that that's a huge advantage with the builders that we've done our lead nurturing program with our growth engine with. So, yeah, that's absolutely huge.
[00:13:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Sorry, I had to jump in there before you got to the third tip. Of content. So go ahead and finish that.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: Well, yeah. And then the third bucket of content that we talk about is promotional. Like, sure, you'd still need to talk about your company. You still need to talk about your promotions, your new models, your company milestones, awards that you've won, stuff like that. That's, that is important, but it shouldn't be the only focus of your blog.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:14:09] Speaker A: And I think, you know, when we're going on a client or a prospect, if their blog is named news, that's usually the first red flag because people don't want news. They want to read helpful, educational content.
[00:14:23] Speaker B: So, yeah, yeah, that's a big one. When I see news, I'm like, oh, dear.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: Yeah, it kind of, you sit back for a sec, you're like, what are we gonna, what are we gonna find here?
[00:14:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:37] Speaker A: So, Cyril, what do you think everyone should start doing in regards to the blogging and content?
[00:14:45] Speaker B: So this one is kind of, I don't know how people are totally gonna feel about this one, but this is something for me that I found is something that content marketers don't generally do, and that's cleanup.
So in regards to that, I mean, you know, there's a couple of different things that you do. So taking an old post that needs to be updated, refresh it and update it and repost it and let people know. It was originally posted, like, four years ago, but it's been updated since, so the stats are refreshed. And maybe you don't build that model anymore. Well, then you shouldn't have it in content. If you don't build it anymore, you shouldn't have it in your content, period. And a lot of times people will just remove it off their site, that's fine. But how many articles did you talk about that particular model? Because it's great for a move up buyer. Well, now you need to go and find those and replace them with the model that, you know, replace that content and update it with the model that works better.
You know, there's nothing worse than going in and being like, oh, that sound actually, that floor plan sounds really great. And you click the link and it takes you to a 404, or, you know, it just doesn't work. It's awful.
So part of that, too, is, you know, going into your data, whatever tool that you're using, finding out, you know, what pages could use, an update that is pages that are on page two of Google. You know, if you have an article that you wrote four years ago and it's on page two of Google, well, refresh it, update it, and that gives you a great chance to move it up to the first page and you aren't having to create a whole new piece from scratch. That's your first part of cleanup. The second part of cleanup is when you were in that phase of doing content and it was all about quality. How many articles did you put out? How many things did you write that really aren't relevant to your industry or to your buyer? You know, or you don't run that program anymore. Say you had a list for free program and you would list somebody's home. A lot of builders do this or did this. They don't do it anymore. But did you write an article about it?
Maybe, you know, so go through your old content and if you don't do it anymore, then remove it from your site and redirect it. Please redirect it. Oh, my gosh. Key part of cleaning up, by the way, but clean that stuff up, as we've talked about, the Internet is bloated. It is bloated with crap articles. And you know what? People who are using AI tools, AI tools are reading some of those crap articles for information.
So remove some of that bloat from your site. Honestly. Yeah, like, you know, so clean up for me. And you don't always have to be producing a brand new piece all the time. You know, sometimes going in and updating one creates a new, you know, puts it up and you get that chance to go back into Google again and bring your rankings up. But it also, you know, cleans up some of that bloat on your site.
[00:17:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: And I don't think a lot of people do that with content in my experience.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: No, you're right. I think, you know, when we deal with a savvy marketing team who really understands the purpose and the point of content marketing, they're more apt to be thinking along those lines. But for sure, most, I mean, we run across this all the time. But in this industry, marketers in the home building industry have a ton of responsibility that goes way beyond just digital marketing, right?
[00:18:30] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: And, you know, they're responsible for show homes and events and like all sorts of stuff. So it's hard to stay on top of digital. But when you deal with a savvy digital marketer, that's one of the things that they're looking at. And that's one of the things that we talk about all the time, too, is like, how do you get the most mileage out of your content? Content's expensive to create. It is it takes hours and hours to create a really great piece of content. So how do you get the most mileage out of it? And so you have splintering where we take that blog post and we splinter off social media posts from it or social media content, and then you can, you know, take that piece of content and make a content upgrade, which is something I want to chat with you a little bit about to premium content, content upgrades. But, you know, like, let's say you created a blog post about questions that you should ask a builder that you're considering working with. Create a cheat sheet out of that or a printable document, right? Yep. And then you can capture an email from that. Content upgrades are gold, but also, like you said, refreshing and going in. One of the things that we look at when we're doing a content plan for a client, especially if they've had previous content or if they are a longer term client, we start going in and looking at Google Analytics and looking at their metrics and see which posts are on that page, too. Those are the posts that you want to look at six months down the road and you have an opportunity there to optimize that article a little bit better and bump it up on the page.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:20:06] Speaker A: Let's talk a little bit more about premium content and content upgrades then.
Probably one of the things that I'm most excited about, and I honestly, I think this is probably the biggest opportunity when it comes to content that most builders aren't taking advantage of. And that's premium content, content upgrades. So tell me a little bit about that. What's, what's been your experience with, with premium content? Tell me a little bit about what a premium content piece is or a content upgrade and tell me, you know, what, what are the benefits of it and what do you think are like, what makes a good piece of premium content?
[00:20:42] Speaker B: So first, I just want to clarify because this has come up for me pretty much with every client we've ever worked with. What's the difference between a piece of premium content and a content upgrade?
Because a lot of people feel like it's the same thing and they do have similarities, 100%, but it's kind of a different approach for people. So if you think about, you know, you want to capture somebody's information, but maybe they aren't ready to book a meeting with your sales team as an example. So then you offer them like a secondary option. Well, maybe just sign up for our newsletter and then you can start marketing to them. Right. So this is like a secondary CTA for example on your website. So content upgrade is kind of like a secondary CTA. You know, you have a content piece and like you said, maybe it's a checklist so, you know, you can give them, hey, click this button, pop in your email, we'll send you a one pager that has the 15 questions you should ask as an example. But the piece of premium content that would be relevant to that article would be, you know, taking that piece of content, expanding out on it more, explaining why these questions are important, how they're relevant to the user, you know, a little bit more detail so you can think about a content upgrade as like, you know, a little bit of a helpful thing for your user so they don't have to try and come up with, say, the list on their own utility. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Whereas a piece of premium content tends to be a little bit more in depth and takes that user a little further down the rabbit hole to answer that particular question.
So you can think of a piece of premium content like YouTube, where it's like, hey, you just watched this video. This one's kind of like it and recommends it. And that brings them further down into what they're looking for and hopefully answers the question more in depth and makes them feel stronger in the next step that they're going to take.
You know, in the buyer's journey, they're going to have another question until they hit the end and you want to, you know, nurture them along to do that. So that's kind of the difference between content upgrade and the premium piece of premium content, just to clarify.
So a content upgrade, like I said, you know, like we were talking about, it's for utility. So it's an easy way.
You know, they're interested in that topic because they've landed on your article. So it's an easy way. Low barrier to entry. A lot of times, content upgrades you can offer, you could offer without asking for an email. Click the button and they open that and they get the PDF definitely mixed. And on that, people are mixed on that. You know, everybody, there are people who are like, no, you get an email for everything and there people are like, oh, no you don't. I'm a big fan of the kill the PDF option myself, but it gives them, you know, rather than getting their first name, last name, email, phone number, all the things, you know, just pop in your email and we'll send it to you right away. Very low barrier to entry on something they're already interested in, which already decreases your barrier to entry premium content.
My personal opinion on premium content is make it available and then give them the option. If they want to download it, they can.
So in this case, like I said, kill the PDF where you would have all the content living on a page in your site, whether that's an article or a website page, either or in that piece of content, you have options for them to download it. Do you want to take this and read it later? However you want to put that together and they can put in their information and then you email it to them and you've still gathered that, but you haven't made it so that if they don't give you the information, they don't get the answer to your question.
[00:24:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I was on a website the other day and it was a piece of pillar content. So it was a huge article and I was on the page for, I don't know, five or 8 seconds and then this pop up window opened up and it was like, whoa, this article is huge. Do you want to take it with you?
Yeah, it made me laugh. But then it was smart though, because they're right, it was a huge article and I could put in my email address and I could download that as a PDF and take it with me. And so I think that that's like a really great example of how to kill the PDF. But also you're not really killing the PDF because that's the thing. A lot of people are like, well, I don't want to gate content and we want to kill the PDF, but you still have to capture email. That is an integral part in the whole process of digital marketing. Getting traffic to your website is great, but if you can't capture leads from that, then you're wasting your time. Right? And I think, like just further to that, we see that a lot with agencies that are doing paid ads, whether it's Facebook ads or Google Ads. Like, we had one client we were working with and the agency he was working with was sending paid Google traffic to his homepage. And I'm like, what a waste of money. Like, what's the purpose of that? Like, oh, you clicked a link because you were interested in something specific. I'm going to dump you on my homepage and make you search for what's relevant to you. Like, you have to capture that email. So I mean, just a note on that. Like if you're running paid ads, Google Ads or Facebook ads, send them to a landing page. It's designed to deliver information, but capture that email, that is so critical, so important.
[00:26:16] Speaker B: Yeah, but to go along with that in this day and age, people don't want to give it up. They don't, you know, people's people, when they're looking for information and those kinds of things, you know, if they can find it without having to give their email address, they will a lot. You know, the vast majority of people will take that option first.
And it leads back to the don't be afraid, stop being afraid. If they are in on the search for a new home and they're continually going through the buyer's journey, and everything that's coming up is your information, your helpful information. You're not gated information.
You are going to keep popping up for them and that's going to resonate with them and they will be more willing to give you their information, which makes them more willing to talk to your marketing team or your OSC. And then that point makes them more willing to talk to your sales team as they move further down the line. But if you're demanding their information, you know, demanding their trust, so to speak, right away, well, who gives that right away? Nobody gives that right away.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, I think one of the core philosophies around how we've built our entire digital marketing system that we work with clients on is the philosophy of givers gain. Right. And it's like, oh, givers gain. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's kind of airy fairy, but it's not like there's, if you look at human psychology, it was the book persuasion by Robert Cialdini, and he specifically talks about Giver's gain and the psychological triggers behind Giver's gain. So if you give something, if you give someone something of value, there's a psychological trigger there that they owe you. And so if you deliver that really great content, like, this is why I'm such a huge fan of content upgrades, because if you deliver really, really great content, you're like, holy smokes. You just gave me a ton of value here in helping me compare models or compare communities. But now you're like, hey, do you want an easy worksheet to do this on? Just pop in your email address, we'll email it to you. Well, that's, you know, that's givers gain at work, right? And it works so well. Like, content upgrades are just because they really focus on using the content that they just, that they just consumed. They're so effective and they're really easy to produce, too. That's the great thing about it.
[00:28:50] Speaker B: Yep.
I think it's interesting, too, because it, the givers gain is such a, you know, people like, oh, yeah, I get that. I get that, I get that. But you get a lot of companies who are like, well, you give me first and then you will gain from me. And you kind of have it backwards there. You know what I mean? Like, you can't expect the user to give you first. You need to give to them.
And so, you know, if you're expecting the user to give you their email address and then they'll gain from you, well, you've got it backwards. You have to give to them first as the company, you know?
[00:29:25] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%.
Here's a great question for you. What is something that everyone is trying to do in relation to writing blog posts or creating content that you've discovered a better method for?
[00:29:41] Speaker B: Okay, so I see all the time, I get emails all the time about like, content planners and content schedules and calendars to create content, which is great. You should do that. You should plan that ahead of time. But what I'm finding and what we found, especially over the last, you know, 13 years, people don't have an idea on what to write about, so they just fill the calendar with whatever and it's like, yeah, we have a plan. We have a content plan. You have a content plan of fluff is what you have. Right. So one of the things that, you know, we do and like 100 times better, such a great method is, you know, again, writing for the user, looking at the specific questions that they're asking and creating that, mapping out that buyer's journey, looking at those questions and, sorry, writing content for those questions. And that is the plan, you know, and that can happen over the span of three months, six months, a year. You know, it all depends on how you want to lay that out in your, you know, in your, in your framework.
In the framework, sorry, that we work with, but so many times, you know, we're writing this content and I get, you know, clients who are like, oh, that's a great topic. You know, I get asked that all the time. Yeah, because it's a key part of the buyer's journey, bro. Like, you know, if, and that's the other thing. Like, I mean, I will say it's a little bit better now than it used to be, but it still feels very divided between sales and marketing, you know? But if your sales team, if they're getting this particular question over and over and over and over, it's a part of your buyer's journey, your Persona's journey, put it in your content plan and write about it.
[00:31:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Because that also creates a sales tool for your salespeople because when they get that question, they can go, yeah, here's the short answer.
We actually wrote a blog post about it. What's your email address? I'll send you a link to it. Now, you've done two things, you've been super helpful, but now that salesperson has captured the contact info of a prospect at the show home, which we know based on our experience and all of our secret shops that we do, is something that never happens or rarely happens.
[00:32:02] Speaker B: Rarely.
[00:32:02] Speaker A: Rarely does it happen. But, yeah. And like, just a caveat to that is that you, most cases, when we are asked for our contact information at a show home, it's so that we can send you updates about promos. It's like, so we can send you marketing information, not helpful content, right?
[00:32:22] Speaker B: Yep. Yep, exactly. So, yeah, that's creating that plan again, tying back to writing for your user and mapping out that journey. And for the most part, you know, somebody buying a home, their journey is fairly similar. You know, they're asking the same kinds of questions, but depending on, you know, what kind of buyer they are, the answers to those questions can be vastly different.
[00:32:47] Speaker A: Oh, huge.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: Vastly different, do you mean. So again, taking into account planning that out, not, you know, having a content plan is one thing. Having a targeted, purposeful content plan, completely different content strategy. Okay, I didn't want to say it, but yes, having an actual strategy behind your content. Yeah, like you said, you know, salespeople can use that. You people don't utilize their content enough. You know, like you were saying, like splintering, sending it out to people, using it for social, using it for this, using it for email, whatever, like an article, you know, I mean, we mostly are talking about blogs, but discounts for website content to page content as well. Pillar stuff, all that kind of thing. You know, it's so many people. So many people. Write it, post it, done. No, use it, dude. Use it.
[00:33:44] Speaker A: Yeah, leverage it. Right? So you've just invested in an asset for your business. Leverage the heck out of it and get as much as most mileage out of it as you can. Yeah, so, yeah, that's exactly, that's exactly it. You know, and that's a really good point too. And when you, when you map out the home buying journey based on, so we do it based on a buyer Persona, which, that buyer Persona is based on the product type or stage of life. So whether it's a first time home buyer or a move up buyer, downsizer, or an investor, whatever it happens to be this is brings up a really good point, because I was talking with a builder the other day, and they sell primarily higher end move up buyer product, but they also do custom and infill.
And we were talking about content strategy specifically. And I said, look, you have to understand that the content requirements or the education requirements, if you want to put it that way for a move up buyer, are totally different than somebody that's getting ready to build custom on their lot. And even more so when it comes to infill. Right? Like an infill.
If someone's gonna buy a home and they're gonna level it and then build a new home, there's way more education and way different education required to have us understanding to make a smart buying decision around that. It's up to you as the builder to teach them how to do that. Right. And so mapping out that entire journey, and when we talk about the buyers journey. Just let me backtrack for a second here because this is really important.
When we talk about the home buying journey, a lot of people think about that as from the point that somebody comes into the show home. And when somebody comes into the show home, like people buy from their couches today, right? And most people do 80% of their home buying journey online on their laptop. And so when somebody comes into your show home, they're already 80% of the way through that home buying journey. They're not just starting, they're towards the final stretch. Right? And so when we talk about mapping the home buying journey, that map basically starts when that prospect looks at their current home, whether they own it or they rent, doesn't matter. When they look at their current home and they go, this place doesn't work for us anymore. That's the start of the journey. And so you need to map out from that point to the point of them taking possession, what are all the touch points? What are all the questions they're asking? And you need to create content around all of those. And because then when you do that, you can serve that content to them and you can keep moving them forward through that journey. Right? So we actually have a premium content piece of our own called the builder's guide to mapping the home buying journey. And that's what this whole piece is based on is how do you map out your content for a buyer Persona?
And we actually created this premium content piece. Do you remember years ago when we did those focus groups?
[00:37:00] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:37:01] Speaker A: That was a ton of fun. And we learned so much from that. So we did a bunch of focus groups and we interviewed groups of people that were already in the home buying process and planned to take possession within the next six months. And then we also interviewed people that were, that had purchased and taken possession within the last six months. So we kind of got those perspectives, like people that are just about to buy and people that have just bought. And it was really, really interesting because we asked them questions about like, what makes a good website and what kind of information did you find helpful? And the big thing that we uncovered when we were doing that, though, was understanding the process that they go through. And like, so did you look at home models first or did you narrow down a community first? And did you look at, you know, when did you go and look at show homes? And like, it really helped us to understand the timeline of and the series of milestones that a homebuyer goes through. And that is basically the core of what we've built our growth engine framework around, where we do a homebuilder's content and lead nurturing and their whole digital marketing framework.
[00:38:17] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:38:18] Speaker A: But yeah, that was super, super informative and like, again, without, you know, continuing off on this huge tangent, like, it's so important to understand what that buyer Personas journey is because we narrowed it down. So there's 19 questions. And I was just speaking at, I was at the international Builder show back in February this year, and I was speaking with a number of other industry professionals and one of them was dear friend Wade from copper builders. And I said on stage, I'm like, there's roughly 19 questions. And he looked at me and laughed out loud. He's like, roughly 19. Hey, it was funny, but there is roughly 19 because depending on their buyer Persona, there could be more, there could be less. 19 common questions that you need to answer in that content journey.
[00:39:13] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:39:15] Speaker A: So here's a great question. What is a failure that you've experienced in relation to blog posts or premium content that you think that many are headed for?
[00:39:27] Speaker B: So this is interesting to me because it ties back into the AI thing, it ties back into quality and quantity.
You know, I don't know how recently it is, but for a long time things were definitely focused on the quantity.
And as we've been focusing more on quality, we've gone back and looked at some of these articles and like, they didn't even rank on the first five pages of Google, let alone page one or two. And, you know, and I think as people come around to the idea of refreshing and optimizing and quality and not so dependent upon AI, you're going to come face to face with these failures and you're going to come face to face with these things that did not work.
You're going to come face to face with content that you have written. And it doesn't have to be from years ago, it can be from six months ago, because that has happened, you know, where you write a piece and you're like, oh, man, cool, and post it and then you realize that it's trash. It's awful.
You know, you spent. Now, just to clarify, it's okay to talk about yourself and some of your, in your content and those kinds of things, but, you know, you come face to face with an article where you spend all this time hyping yourself up and talking about all these things, and it wasn't relevant at all to the question you should be answering with that piece of content that.
So, you know, I feel like for us, because we're trying to be more proactive about that kind of thing and trying to, you know, really move forward and focus on quality, coming face to face with the stuff that you did and didn't maybe necessarily have that focus on or, you know, where you, I will admit where you were like, oh man, I was so clever. And it was actually just a horrible pun or something like that, you know what I mean of things. I feel like a lot of builders and real estate professionals, content marketers in general, are going to have to swallow a little bit of pride there and realize that it's not good. It's not good and it wasn't good then. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so having to deal with that.
[00:41:58] Speaker A: I think, sorry, I totally cut yaav. I wanted to just quickly note too, though, but I think it's important that people are bold and take risks at the same time, but understand that some of them are going to end in failure. Right? Like, you never know. Marketing is, marketing is just as much art as it is science. Right. It's more so science in this day and age, but it's still a lot of it's art. But when it comes to, like, best practices, you start with what you know is a best practice and then you experiment. And the only way that you improve is by failing. You fail forward.
[00:42:33] Speaker B: Yep. So exactly, you know, exactly.
[00:42:36] Speaker A: Don't be too afraid to create a piece of content. You know, the strive for perfectionism is unreachable is the strive for perfectionism is unreachable. So, you know, get it out, write it, publish it, and go. Right?
[00:42:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, one of my favorite things, make it work. Then make it better.
[00:42:53] Speaker A: 100%. Yeah.
[00:42:55] Speaker B: And I am a fortunate person that I'm not one of those ones that feels like something has to be a hundred percent perfect. I've never struggled with that. I do, however, struggle with looking back on something that I thought was good and realizing that it wasn't. It feels a little bit of a hit.
[00:43:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:15] Speaker B: You know, so I feel like that's gonna come home to roost for a lot of content marketers. Coming up, you know, where you thought you did this bang up job and everything was kick ass, but not so much. Not so much.
[00:43:29] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think a lot of that goes back to having a really great content strategy to begin with. And again, like, I don't want. I'm really trying to push value and knowledge in this. But, you know, just another plug. The mapping the homebuyer's journey guide on our website is it's the value. Like, we should charge money for it. It's so much value because that's everything that we've learned through 13 years of creating content and doing focus groups and really understanding the homebuyer's journey. I mean, that guide is so valuable for coming up with a content strategy for your buyer Personas. Like, start with that, you know, it's a great starting point.
Okay, another question for you. What is something that you or your team have recently achieved in relation to blog posts or premium content that you're really proud of?
[00:44:29] Speaker B: So over the last few years, we've really taken our writing process and our preparation process to a completely different level.
Really spending a lot of time focusing on the briefs that we're creating for our writers, looking at keywords and search intent, and how is it answering that question? Those kinds of things.
And with that, using that to either update an older piece or create a brand new one? Either or.
But really honing in on the quality part of it. And it has been, you know, we'll get a piece up and see results, see it on Google within 60 days, like first pages, taking featured snippet spots, you know, really focusing on different key aspects of, of content to help it address whatever question it's answered, beggar, whatever question it's addressing directly in the best way possible. Whether that be like a listicle, whether that be a tool, whether that be a rich answer, any of those kinds of things. But looking at that and drilling down on user intent, you know, and the, the really interesting thing about that is by focusing on the user intent and really wanting to provide, like, great information, not fluff stuff, not very surface level, we're going under the water, you know what I mean?
A byproduct of that is better search rankings is hitting that first page is grabbing that featured snippet, whatever it is. Do you mean? So while we weren't specifically writing for Google, by focusing on search intent, Google is like, this is great and brings it up because that's what Google and search engines are, search intent. So by not, you know, by stopping and being like, you know, I mean, and that's not to say these aren't seoed, these aren't. Not to say that we don't optimize these things because 100% we do, but that isn't the focus of what we're writing anymore, you know, and I'm super proud of that with our team because it, you know, it's a mind shift. You know, you got to change that mindset about it and, you know, that's not easy to do. I mean, we can all be honest, a lot of marketers, we are a proud bunch.
You know, there's no ego here.
[00:47:02] Speaker A: What are you talking about?
[00:47:03] Speaker B: I don't know what you're talking about.
You know, and being able to look at what you've done and say there's better ways to do this and put aside your pride or put aside your ego or put aside, you know, you need that stab that I did the thing, that kind of stuff. So I'm really proud of that. But I'm really proud of our team for super embracing it as well. And like grabbing that bull by the horns. I'm just full of frigging cliches today and running with it, you know, and like, you know, take, you know, like Mark as an example, you know, when we were first bringing it up with him and he was like, oh, you know, I could try this or what about that? And finding some resources to help our team, you know, because it's when, you know, whenever you're starting a new system, whatever new process, however that works, there's going to be stumbles. You're going to, like you said, feel forward, you know what I mean?
So I'm really proud of that. And being able to see the results of that for our clients, you know, getting that stuff and just, you know, writing this piece, that's, we're like, yeah, that is, you know, no, they're not going to have any questions left by the time they're done reading that article. And then, you know, 30 days, six days, 90 days later, you see it. It's taken the first 2nd, 3rd spot on Google you're like, you know, you can say I did that, but without it being cocky, right? Like, yeah, because you did, and it's good and, you know, and all that, right? So that's something I'm super proud of, and I'm really happy that we were able to take that and Martin was able to run with it and, you know, we're like, okay, so I'll be a little bit prideful. We're excelling. We're doing a great job, you know?
[00:48:40] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.
[00:48:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:48:41] Speaker A: There's two examples that come to mind for me. One of them was way back in 2011 when we were working on a downtown low rise development. This was our first real estate project ever, and we got approached by a consultant who was working on this project. So basically, sales had stalled out and the lenders were like, we need our money.
And so they needed to kickstart some things. So they looked at, they hired this consultant and he approached us and said, look, I've got budgethouse. Here's what I need to do. Come down and see the building. It's really an amazing building, and we need to just get sales going again. And so we put together, which was our first kind of growth engine framework. Really, it wasn't. We didn't call it that back in the day, but, like, it was. So we did blogging, and we did email, and we built a website, and we did social media. But we.
The key to what? But the key to effective digital marketing is using all of these tactics together in a certain way so that they all complement one another, right? The reason we call it a growth engine is because, like an engine, it has all these different components. And if those components don't work together in a certain way, the engine gets no output, right? So you can do social media and you can do email marketing and you can do blog posts, but when you write a blog post and you, you know, splinter it and promote it on social and pull that traffic back into the blog post and promote it through email and pull people back in. Now everything's working together in an organized way, and that's how you get results, right? And so we created a bunch of blog posts for this consultant because he was also selling the project.
And it was within, like, three weeks of putting up the first blog post, he had somebody come into the sales center and he's like, yeah, I read the blog post that you wrote, and he just smiled. And he called me after that person left. He's like, you won't believe what just happened. I said, what's that. He's like, I had somebody come into the show home. They're like, I read the blog post that you wrote, and then fast forward. I think it was only another two weeks or something like that. They ended up buying from him, and he called me back, and he was so excited. He's like, they bought, like, blog content works. I'm like, it absolutely works, right? And so we were writing for him, like, ghost writing for him and putting it up on the website for this development, but it just. It took off. And so what got me really jazzed about that was how excited he was about it, right. Because he was just, like, his eyes opened up to this whole shift of, like, holy cow. I get it. I get it. I understand why I need to be blogging. Right?
That was really cool. And then a more recent example, that of a win that I really like, is we had a client that's a custom builder, and they want to increase their website traffic. So they hired us to write six blog posts that were, like, highly search focused for very competitive terms. And so we put together those six posts, and posts like this normally take three to six months to really rank.
But looking back on that project now four, the six of those posts all ended up in the top five spots of Google search results, and their traffic jumped up by, like, 30% from those six posts. So, like, writing with intent and understanding what the purpose is of the piece of content, again, coming back to those content buckets, are you writing for education, or are you writing for search traffic, like, traffic and search results? Or are you talking about yourself? Which is, again, is okay. You got to do that sometimes. But understanding what the purpose or the goal or the outcome of that content is, is really important, because when you focus in on that, like you said, focusing in on search intent and, like, what are we trying to answer? What is the objective of this piece of content? If it's educational, we need to move people from, you know, the third step in that buying journey to the fourth step, and that piece of content needs to accomplish that goal. So, yeah, those are the two examples that come to mind for me that really stick out.
Cool.
Are you ready for the next piece?
[00:53:07] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:53:08] Speaker A: It's the fun part.
It's the fun lightning round.
[00:53:13] Speaker B: Oh, God.
[00:53:15] Speaker A: And so I did send Serena the questions that we were going to talk about in the post or in the podcast today before the show, but she doesn't know that there's a fun lightning round.
[00:53:27] Speaker B: No lightning round was mentioned.
[00:53:30] Speaker A: Hang on a second here. Let me just bring out my questions.
[00:53:35] Speaker B: I mean, I would have been more ready had I known it was coming.
[00:53:38] Speaker A: Yeah, but this is the fun part for you. For me, exactly. Okay, question number one. What's your favorite book and why? I.
[00:53:48] Speaker B: That's not fair. I read way too much. Can I. Can I pick a series?
[00:53:52] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:53:53] Speaker B: Okay. So my favorite series was the sword of truth by Terry Goodkind. It was a series of, like, eleven. And I just fell in love and I. Yeah, it was super fun. Not a business one. Sorry.
[00:54:05] Speaker A: That's okay.
[00:54:07] Speaker B: I read way more fiction than not. Not gonna lie.
[00:54:10] Speaker A: Okay, cool. Question number two. If you could have dinner with any three people, dead or alive, who would they be?
[00:54:20] Speaker B: Any three. Dead or alive.
You're killing me. You're killing me. Okay, let's go.
Keanu Reeves is somebody I just think would be amazing to talk to. He said, such a crazy life. I would love to hear his perspective on that. I think that'd be super interesting.
It sounds kind of cliche, but. Gary Vee, I love him. I think he's hilarious. I remember seeing him speak one time at or I believe it was our first inbound ever.
And I think he's just amazing. And watching his evolution from way back when to now, like, it's just fascinating to me, and I would love to be able to pick his brain a little bit.
And number three.
Let's go Oprah.
[00:55:11] Speaker A: That's cool.
[00:55:12] Speaker B: She just built such an empire. And again, I think she'd be somebody who'd be. I like to hear people's stories. I'd love to hear more of that. I mean, she was like, what? She got fired from her for her news job when she was in her. I think it was her late twenties, because they said she wouldn't make it on tv and that they were full of crap, weren't they? So.
[00:55:33] Speaker A: Okay, next question. What's your go to? Comfort food.
[00:55:37] Speaker B: Popcorn.
[00:55:39] Speaker A: What's the best piece of advice you ever received?
[00:55:43] Speaker B: What other people think of you is none of your business.
[00:55:46] Speaker A: Good one.
If you weren't in your current profession, what do you think you'd be doing instead?
[00:55:52] Speaker B: Hmm.
I think I would still be doing something with writing. I love writing. I read a lot and I love stories, and I just. I thoroughly enjoy writing. I love creating something like that. So I think I would still be trying to do something with that.
I used to when I was a kid. Well, when I was. At first, I always thought I'd be a lawyer, which is super funny. But I did entertain dreams of being an author and, like, writing my own books, so I think I maybe would have pursued that.
[00:56:23] Speaker A: A little bit of you should still do that.
[00:56:26] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:56:29] Speaker A: Next question. What's a skill you've always wanted to learn but haven't had the chance to yet?
[00:56:39] Speaker B: I do not have artistic talent in regards to, like.
[00:56:47] Speaker A: So, I mean, I can see the paintings behind you.
[00:56:52] Speaker B: Okay. Hold. My daughter and I, when Covid hit, we did something I've always wanted to do, which was a Bob Ross painting. Love Bob Ross. Adore him. And if you didn't watch the Netflix special on him.
Watch it. Find it, and watch it. It was absolutely fascinating to find out what happened to him and his whole empire. Anyway, sidetrack.
But the thing about those and Bob Ross is it is step by step, he tells you, take this paint, mix it, move it, so on and so forth. Pulling that out of my own head, I've never been able to do. I'm not good at it. I, like. I do knitting, and I'm just starting to turn around to crochet. But those, again, following patterns. Um, and I enjoy them. I would like to be able to do things like that more.
Pulling it out of my own head and, like, thinking of that kind of stuff, which I think is part of the reason why I like writing so much, because I can do that with writing, but to do that in a more artistic form with, like, watercolors or pencil crayons or something, you know what I mean? Like, that kind of a thing, I. Yeah, no, like, my people are. You know, if I try and draw a person, it's. It's not good.
It's bad.
[00:58:00] Speaker A: So, next question. What's your guilty pleasure? Tv show or movie?
[00:58:06] Speaker B: Oh, okay. So, boondock saints, number one movie. Anytime I can watch that, I will.
[00:58:12] Speaker A: That's a great show.
[00:58:13] Speaker B: I'm not gonna lie. I watch way too much trash reality tv. Way too much trash reality tv.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
[00:58:22] Speaker A: Next question. If you could live anywhere in the world for a year, where would it be?
[00:58:28] Speaker B: I'm going to have to say Portugal.
[00:58:32] Speaker A: Portugal was cool, trip.
[00:58:34] Speaker B: It was very cool. But, I mean. I mean, we did the mainland for a week, and we did the islands for the week, but I would love to be able to be there for a year and, like, fully immerse myself in the culture and learn way more about that.
[00:58:50] Speaker A: That would be awesome.
[00:58:51] Speaker B: Forget about the food.
[00:58:53] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. The food was so good.
[00:58:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:58:56] Speaker A: Next question. What's your favorite way to unwind after a long day?
[00:59:01] Speaker B: Oh, crappy tv show. Like Trash TV or, you know, movie or whatever. Soaking in the hot tub.
That is like a happy place for me, for sure.
[00:59:14] Speaker A: Next question. If you could only listen to one genre of music for the rest of your life, what would it be?
[00:59:20] Speaker B: Oh, no.
I'm gonna have to go.
[00:59:26] Speaker A: Rock good sluts.
[00:59:29] Speaker B: You have to go a rock.
[00:59:30] Speaker A: Next question. What's your favorite vacation destination you've ever been to?
[00:59:35] Speaker B: Ever been to?
That's a toss up. But I think, again, Portugal. I think that was my favorite trip. My kids would say Mexico 100%, but. And it was fabulous. I loved Mexico.
[00:59:47] Speaker A: But what's the most memorable gift you've ever received, and why was it special?
[00:59:53] Speaker B: Oh, holy crap. Um, I'll go cheesy for this one.
[00:59:57] Speaker A: Just keep it short because it's a lightning round.
[01:00:00] Speaker B: Sorry, my daughter. Because I got her just before my birthday.
[01:00:04] Speaker A: No. Next question. If you could.
If you could time travel, would you go to the past or the future and why?
[01:00:12] Speaker B: I'd go to the past and I would go meet Jesus.
I would go and sit down and have a conversation with Jesus and watch him turn water to wine and break bread with me. Him.
[01:00:23] Speaker A: That would be pretty incredible.
[01:00:25] Speaker B: I think.
[01:00:25] Speaker A: So, next question. What's your favorite beverage, alcoholic or non alcoholic?
[01:00:32] Speaker B: Like ginger ale.
And it's good on its own or with alcohol, so it works.
[01:00:38] Speaker A: There you go.
Okay, last one. What's one item on your bucket list that you're determined to accomplish?
[01:00:46] Speaker B: Go to Ireland.
That's a cool. Want to see Ireland so bad? So bad.
[01:00:54] Speaker A: That would be a ton of fun, for sure.
[01:00:57] Speaker B: I might even take you with me.
[01:00:58] Speaker A: Aw.
Alright. Well, that's a wrap on the first episode of the homebuilder marketing and growth show. Serena, thank you so much for joining me on this episode and sharing all your knowledge and wisdom about blog content and content writing, content strategy. We packed a ton of value into this episode. I'm really excited about it. It.
Coming up on the blog. On the blog. Coming up on the podcast.
We're gonna make some mistakes in the first one, right? That's kind of how it goes. What did you say? Get it done and then make it better, right? So that's what we make it work.
[01:01:35] Speaker B: Make it better.
[01:01:36] Speaker A: That's what we're making it work because we're recording. So, yeah. Coming up on the podcast, we're, like I said, we're going to be having regular segments about HubSpot for home builders for HubSpot. HubSpot partner agency. We actually were one of the first HubSpot partners to specialize in the homebuilding industry. We've been using it for 13 years. We've seen it all in HubSpot. So we're going to be sharing all of our tips with you in much shorter, smaller segments. So probably like 1015 minutes or we'll just unpack a tip or a hack or something. We've learned to help you improve and use HubSpot better. The other mini segments we're going to be doing is just general marketing and sales tips. So whether it's digital marketing or sales follow up in the show home, that sort of thing. So we're going to do shorter segments on that. And then I've got a huge list of amazing guests that I'm really excited to interview in a similar format to this. So we're going to dive into specific topics, really unpack a lot of value for you guys so you can learn from other people in the industry and get to know people a little bit better. So again, thank you so much. Thank you, Serena, thanks for tuning. Please share the episode. If you're watching this on YouTube, like subscribe, all that good stuff, send the podcast to your colleagues. We're really trying to build our viewership and our following on this since we're brand new, so we really would appreciate any help that you can give us with that. So hope you enjoyed it. Thanks so much, and we'll see you on the next one.
[01:03:09] Speaker B: Thanks. Bye.
