Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, folks, welcome to another episode of the Home Builder, Marketing and Growth show. I'm your host, Jeff Schneider with Velocity 23 today. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. We have Brent Baumas with us from RCTbuilt. Brent is a digital transformation consultant and somebody I've actually had the pleasure of knowing for about 13 years now. Brent actually was the person that helped guide me into the wonderful world of real estate and new home construction way back in the day when we first met. We've had the pleasure of working together on multiple projects since then.
So it's, it's a, just a really awesome conversation. A great person to have on the show today. Brent, thanks for being here. Looking forward to our conversation. You and I always have the most amazing conversations about everything digital and what's going on in the world and the cutting edge stuff. So for those that don't know you, Brent, can give us a quick introduction about yourself and tell us how did you get involved in this industry?
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Well, glad to be here, Jeff. Appreciate the invite. And like you said, we always have good conversations. Enjoy them very much. In fact, you were pretty impactful on my life back about 13 years ago, and that's when I was really kind of first introduced to the digital world. So my, my career spans over, I won't say how many decades, but I started with the brick warehouse many years ago and then, then transitioned into real estate, had some friends in real estate, and I've worked for a number of home builders, run a number of home building companies and really enjoy that space, the consumer. But my passion has always been the marketing side and this transformation that's happening now with digital marketing and the speed in which things are changing. So I really enjoy the space I'm in now, enjoy having conversations, sharing my experiences. But I've seen it. There's so much that is theory and, you know, and concepts and whatnot, but proving it out in the real world is where, you know, this is like, yes, you know, my hypothesis was correct. This does work. And the thing I love about it most, I would say, is that it's becoming far more customer centric because the customer really is in charge now and it's about providing them with the information they need to make the right buying decision.
And so that was, that was pretty critical for me to understand that. So that's, that's kind of a synopsis. There's a lot of, you know, rabbit holes to go down, but we'll, we'll kind of stick to the script today.
[00:03:07] Speaker A: Well, I Think you really nailed it on the head with. You need to make sure that you're giving the customer everything that they need to know, all the information for them to their research in order for them to make a smart buying decision for themselves. Like, one of the things that I talk about a lot is that where most home builders struggle, at least from what I've seen, is when they want to try to continue to sell homes the way that they want to sell them, rather than trying to sell homes the way that people want to buy them. And I think you and I both can agree that there's been a major shift, especially through Covid, in how people want to buy homes they, they don't like. What I'm seeing now is that people don't want to get in front of a salesperson and try to get that salesperson to answer all their questions because people don't want to be sold. We don't like to be sold. We like to buy, but we don't like to be sold. So we need to create this kind of self serve environment for potential home buyers where they can find the things that they want. And I think probably what you and I would both agree on is that the tools that are making the biggest impact in the industry today are the tools that are allowing the prospect to find the information that they need more quickly and more easily.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. I mean I think that's a critical thing, is that you, you know, people's time is, you know, time is becoming more and more valuable and we're pulled in so many different directions that you know, you just. The self serve economy is really what it's become and instant gratification where people need something now. So your website is really your store now when it used to be an online brochure and there's still some that have online brochures out there, but it's, it's a different experience. So you know, when, when I started, you know, the Internet was, you know, oh, this is, you know, this is really cool. But those who didn't pay attention to it are no longer relevant and in, in most cases went the way of the dinosaur, you know, and you know, you take a look at some very big companies. So I don't think, you know, in this day and age there is no rule of too big to fail. You have to, you have to stay on what is happening. And there's a fear of that which, which I found is that people are afraid of, you know, technophobia is the, is the fastest increase, you know, increasing phobia out there because people don't want to come across as ill inform.
So what they do is they avoid the topic. And, you know, so we've at RCT built, it's more of a consortium of, you know, really top consultants that I talk to for the solutions.
You know, I'm, I'm looking at everything as, you know, an ecosystem and that the digital ecosystem really doesn't perform any different than, you know, the, the natural ecosystem. And so you have to pay attention to it and, and just read about it, because it's not, you know, if you just learn 20% of, of a topic, your mind all of a sudden goes into like an osmosis mode where you start to just take in more and expand your, you know, your knowledge on it and then you feel more comfortable. But. But fearing it and turning your back on it is definitely not the solution.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think that makes a lot of sense. I think you really hit it on the head because I think part of the fear that a lot of people have, especially the people that aren't really into the tech side of things, is that everything is just evolving and changing so quickly. I mean, you rewind. Three, four years ago, AI was barely a blip on the radar. Now AI is everywhere. It's in every tool. And so what do you think are some of the challenges that people that aren't tech savvy or aren't at the leading edge of keeping on top of what's happening in the tech world? What are some of the challenges that you're seeing that they're experiencing?
[00:07:47] Speaker B: Well, I see that the biggest challenge, in my opinion, is that what you're trying to do so often, of course, is outsource that type of knowledge. But they don't understand essentially what your vision is and who your company is, because it's how you apply technology.
Like technology is a tool.
And, you know, I mean, we've seen the, you know, the evolution of tools, but if you're not using the latest tool, you know, one story that, that really hit home for me was a story about the high jump and, you know, the Pillsbury flop where, you know, it was a new technique that looked really awkward and people weren't doing it until this, you know, this guy started winning everything. And it was the adoption of the technique. And I think that the challenge right now with people is, okay, what do I need to know? You know, that is the critical part of it, because you can't possibly know at all. I mean, that's why I surround myself with people. Who know different aspects because there's so much specialized knowledge that, you know, you try and comprehend all of it at once, and it's overwhelming. And so I think you got to begin with the basics on understanding how this transformation started, why it started. And we're in a phase right now that is called punctuated equilibrium. And, you know, it goes back to the Darwin theory when he professed phyletic gradualism.
But punctuated equilibrium means that there's an event or a series of event that events that happen that cause all of a sudden a surge and a need to adapt. And I mean, Darwin said it most famously, it's not the smartest, it's not the wealthiest, it's not the strongest, but it's the most adaptable. And you have to also embrace what you don't know and be willing. Because I remember when I started my journey in digital marketing, I knew next to nothing and I had to ask questions in the room that people kind of roll their eyes that knew the answ.
And you know what? You have to. You have to be okay, you have to be vulnerable and say, you know what? I don't know.
But if you say, I don't know and I don't want to learn, that's where the problem is. And I've seen that. Like, you know what? I'm too old to learn this. You know, I hire someone to do it. Well, that person can't get inside your head with your vision so that you can see how you can possibly transform effectively. So that's, you know, my conversations lately have been conversations about finding out where people are at currently. Like, where are you at with your knowledge? And the more honest you are, the better or the easier it is to help.
And because I've been there and I understand, like, you know, it's intimidating to be in a room with a bunch of people that really know their stuff and you don't. So you have to be willing to ask questions and just have the conversation. Because when we do a digital analysis, and there's a lot of funding out there for, you know, for analysis, that we can do an analysis to see where you're at currently and then build from there. Develop a digital.
A digital transformation strategy is what is the first point, I think.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: Okay, that's really interesting. And so tell me a little bit more about that then. Does that help, like, say, a VP or an owner operator kind of identify the different areas where they should be focusing on first for digital or what's involved in doing one of those?
[00:12:04] Speaker B: Well, you have to first, you know, talk to them about the systems that they're using. Because the, the point of AI digital tools is that these tools are there to enhance what you're currently doing, not replace it. You know, you, you can't look at it as, okay, it's gonna, you know, we're gonna have all kinds of jobs being lost and everything else, well, where the job losses are, are in the people that are not using the tools that exist now. And so you have to get up to speed what exists there. So, so just assessing where you're currently at, honestly. And you know, because the, the exponential growth in innovation, I mean, even the diffusion of innovation is changing so dramatically that if you were a laggard in terms of adoption of technology before, you will be rendered obsolete. I mean, that's just a fact, and it may be a scary fact to some, but having the conversation is the beginning. Like, where am I at right now? And if I need to learn like kind of a broad scope of what's going on, what do I need to know? And you just have to understand some of the basic concepts. And those concepts exist in the natural world world. So you have to kind of look at digital through an organic lens. And, and that's, once you do that, it's like, okay, it makes sense. And so that's why we evaluate the systems first, because too many systems are really disjointed and, and siloed. You know, you keep adding platforms, but are the platforms talking to the platform? You know, in a natural ecosystem, you know, every part of the system must contribute to the system.
And what's happening is some parts are taking away. And what we can learn from data today is amazing, but only if the data is good. You know, bad data gives you bad answers. Like, what seems to be an outlier could be the norm, depending on how. So the, the aggregation of data is what's increased dramatically, but the sense making of the data is what we need to focus on. So there's, there's a lot of challenges and it can appear overwhelming, but it has to begin at the executive level. So we're currently putting a course together as for an introduction to digital transformation for executives. And it's a very basic course that just explains the concepts, why we're here, what exponential growth actually means, and have some discussions around it that immediately expands your curiosity. And once you're curious, then you want to know. And if you learn 20% of a subject, like I said before, osmosis kicks in and then you start to absorb more because Your basic understanding of the concepts increases. So yes, we're, we're full of challenges, but the executives have to learn at least the basics of it and not hire people to further their vision. They need to further their vision and, and so they need to understand how to utilize the tools most effectively.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: Oh, I think that's such a relevant point. I've seen time and time again, having been in the industry for as long as I have, where you'll have a changing of the guard, right? And so one VP will leave and a new VP will come in different levels of knowledge, different levels of understanding. And one of the first things that they go to immediately is looking at expenses and costs. And it's like, that's a big number exit. But they don't understand how well, for one, what it is and how it plays into the broad general scope of things or how it fits into the system. Right? Like, what role is that thing playing? So I think that's a really good point.
So once somebody's achieved that, you know, 20% level of knowledge and starts to open their eyes to the world of digital, what would you recommend as a next step then? Like, what's the next thing that somebody should be looking at?
[00:16:45] Speaker B: Well, I would say then it would be the formulation of a digital strategy, you know, specifically a digital transformation strategy strategy. And, you know, you, you can't continue down a path that, you know is not going to lead you to your desired outcome, you know, regardless of how much you've invested in that path. And so that, that seems to be a problem that while we've spent this much money on this, you know, we, we better just keep going. Well, if you see flying monkeys on the path, you know, you're not headed to ox, and so you gotta change course and it involves some pain. You know, the easy. Like this is what I've always said. The easy button isn't easy to develop. Like you, you know, you gotta put in some time and effort on just learning. And I think that what happens is that we learn pretty much what our attention is drawn to, what we like the most, and we learn more about what we already understand rather than trying to learn what we don't understand. Because, you know, we, we have to get outside of that comfort zone and go into the digital realm. That might be completely new to, to people, but it's not as complex, you know, I mean, it was a saying and I can't remember who said it, but even rocket science isn't rocket science. You know, this is, this is basically understanding how Systems work. So, and, but the whole time, keeping in mind the consumer, sometimes the consumer gets left behind. You know, like with your strategy, when everything should revolve around customer centricity and you know, like providing them what they need when they need it. And that comes from understanding your consumer. Because if you look at the new consumers coming up, they're more comfortable texting than talking. You know, they're more comfortable using digital tools. And we have this cognitive bias that we see things through the lens of who we are, when we really got to look at who is our consumer, what is the evolution of that consumer and how do we communicate with them the way that they want to communicate.
So it's, it's about, it's, it's no longer about. If you build it, they will come, you know, and, but the problem is that good cycles are not the best for development of new technologies because, you know, it's so cyclical in a lot of areas, but total. When you want to dominate a, you know, a market or whatever, you want to become the biggest player. It's really about having your ear to the ground, understanding who that is, who you're reaching. I was at a mall the other day and there was a table of teens in the food court and they were all on their phones, but they were all laughing at the same time. Well, I sat close to them and I just, I discovered that they were all talking to each other, but they, and they were right there, but they were using their phones to communicate and share memes and GIFs and all of these things. So the change is coming from the consumer, I think. You know, I don't, I don't know if it was you who touched on it, but the COVID pandemic really did cause change because it, it all of a sudden forced people to start using these tools and then the acceleration started to happen. So, so yes, to answer the question, I mean, it's, it's, it's putting together this strategy that has to come for the, from the senior executive, not from someone who you hire to say, okay, like you understand, you know, the digital world, but do you understand our business? Do you understand our pain points, our hurdles, our barriers, all of these things. So you have to look at it through. How can it help just having that mindset alone? How can I use this to help? And, and look at the low hanging fruit first, you know, just do this. It's simple. But you have to be open to having that conversation.
[00:21:36] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I think you and I have talked about this A lot in the past that the, the, in the home building industry, typically, obviously it's an overgeneralization, but they tend to be laggards with technology uptake. Right. And I was having a, I had a really great episode with Kevin Weitzel from Outhouse and we were talking about technology. And, and one of the things that he brought up that really hit, hit a chord for me was he said, you know, you've got the bleeding edge, which is like right at the forefront. You're a pioneer of adopting things that maybe haven't been adopted, but then you have the leading edge and that's a little more comfortable. So you're not out there, you know, cutting the path, but you're at the front of the line. Right. And I think that that's a really smart place for home builders to be. But the question I wanted to ask you is for, you know, an executive or even a marketing team that is really excited about adopting new technology and new tools.
From your experience in the industry, what have you seen as being some of the mistakes that happen? Like, what are some things that you would caution people or recommend they stop doing when it comes to, you know, uptaking different technology and different tools and that kind of thing?
[00:22:56] Speaker B: Well, again, it comes to understanding the whole system. You know, you can bring in a tool that disrupts other tools.
So you have to look at what are the implications. Like we, we make decisions based upon again, that instant gratification. I need this. But what are the long term implications of that? Like, you have to evaluate, like, what are, what's the downside? And, and we sometimes don't want to look at the downside. You know, like adding another tool to the tool belt doesn't always, isn't always the solution. You know, you have to say, okay, well, but that tool doesn't work well with this tool. And you know, so everyone's got to learn to play together. That's why the system is the first thing that you have to evaluate what you have before adding to the problem. You know, if it's disconnected already and you add another platform that's not talking to other platforms, then you might have some, you know, some issues with those tools working together, causing further problems. You might do something that causes an SEO problem that, you know, you're, you're all of a sudden, you know, your rankings for search just dropped because you did something that was off base, you know, so it's great to be excited, but I would say test the tools first before using them. And, and, and look at who's using that tool, but does it actually solve the problem or is it just a cool thing that does some, you know, some neat things and. And it's exciting because it's cutting edge. Well, there are tools being created that don't solve the problems you're trying to solve. Like, you have to first look at what are my barriers, what are my pain points along the way, and how do I solve those first. So I think in answering the question, you got to look at what are your pressing concerns and how do I address this with some of the digital tools that are out there and are they disjointed and what are the implications of using that on my system?
Because, I mean, if you take a natural system and, you know, a natural ecosystem and all of a sudden have an oil spill in it, well, it disrupts the entire system. And. And it's very similar to that digitally is you can put something in there that. That essentially disrupts the entire system and makes it even more disjointed. So the whole, you know, the reality of everything is that everything has to work together. You know, you and I talked about Ray Kurzweil, you know, and he's talking about this symbiosis between the digital world and the natural world and how it must be embraced and used for good.
But we have to understand that systems are systems, and the concept of a system is the same in both digital and natural. So I would say look at the implications of what you're trying to incorporate in your system.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: I love that because I often use the analogy of everybody has these aspirations of growth. And so what we need to do in order to achieve that growth is we have to, first of all, look at where are you today and where is it that you want to go? And I often use the analogy of a car, right, like to get from here to there, you need a vehicle to do that. And what we commonly talk about is our growth engine. So you need to have an engine that drives that car. And I like to look at it as all the different marketing tactics or all the different tools that you're using are all components of an engine. So if you look at a car engine as an example, you've got your fuel system and you've got an air intake and you've got a computer and everything that runs and operates that whole system. And in order for an engine to get output, everything has to work together in harmony, in synchronicity, right? And so if one little factor in that is off, it changes the output of that engine. And so I think it's really important, like, just to further what you're saying is you have to take a look at this new component that you want to bolt onto this vehicle or bolt onto this engine. What's it, what's the purpose of it, first and foremost, and is it going to help that vehicle operate more efficiently or get additional output that's going to move you to that, you know, to that growth goal or that destination that you want to reach? You know, in a past life, I worked at a car parts store when I was just. When I was in college. And we used to always laugh because the guys that were driving, like the Pontiac Sunfires and stuff like that would come in and they'd want these gigantic great big wings on their car. And we would all laugh because it's like, that's gonna slow your car down and it looks stupid. But, like, understanding, like, what is the purpose of this component or this tool or this piece of technology that you want to bolt on the framework of the system? Like, what, what's the purpose and how is it going to help you get to your destination?
[00:28:34] Speaker B: Right, yeah. And, and, and, you know, the. It's, it's a good analogy because we also, you know, how fast you want to get to the destination.
So if you want to get there quicker, you, you have to make sure that everything's in sync with that engine and that it has the capacity. You know, we don't. Like, I would say one of the issues in, in construction is capacities, and we're always struggling with capacities and taking over capacity, which blocks up, you know, really the entire market and then the deliverables to the consumer.
You know, sometimes the quality goes down, the time factor changes. All of these change at the, you know, at the detriment of, you know, your, I would say, your reputation and, and that's pretty critical. Like it's, you know, a customer, you know, a happy customer doesn't often tell too many people. They just kind of expected a good experience. But an unhappy customer, I mean, those are the ones that tell and that spreads very quickly, especially through social media nowadays. So. Yeah, I mean, the analogy of the engine is a great one. You know, I like the, you know, just looking at the RPMs, you don't want to blow your engine by adding something that's. That's not going to work. So.
[00:30:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. So in all your experience, Brian, obviously you've played in a. You've been in a number of different roles in the industry. With a number of different companies, what is something along the lines of digital transformation or digital adoption for that, for that matter, that you see a lot of people trying to do that you've kind of unraveled the mystery of, or you figured out a better way of doing it, or what did you learn along the way? What's a piece of advice that you could share with others that are kind of further behind in this path to digital transformation?
[00:30:39] Speaker B: Well, I think that's a good question. And, and the problem is that, that the ones that are further behind are playing catch up to something that's already irrelevant.
Like you've, you've got to go to the most, like you're gonna, you may have to, to skip a technology and go to the latest because otherwise you're, you're always playing catch up and it's no one component. You know, like we talk about this interaction between components. You know, it's like there's a, there's a number of components, but you have to. That's why I talk about plug and play systems, because there's always a better solution coming out there that you should be able to unplug one solution and plug in a new solution. So it's like how everything integrates together. When you look at a company like HubSpot from right out of the gate, you know, open APIs just, you know, willing to work with all other companies and connect to pretty much anything because they understand their role, you know, and what they're supposed to do. So you have to look at the technologies. I guess what I've learned is face, face the, the hard facts, you know, like being behind, that's fine. But when you come to the realization, it's like when you, when you're trying to help someone that has a problem, if they can't admit to the problem, then you're, you're not going to ever be able to help them. And, you know, all we're, all we're trying to do at RCTbuilt is help people understand what's involved. But the consequences of not being adaptable and, and failing to adopt until you, you know, until you hit the late majority or, and that's no longer acceptable as those cycles have actually shifted, shortened so that you could, you know, in the future you're going to be behind three technologies if you're following a linear path. And I, I would say that the path is no longer linear. You know, I mean, it's, I mean, it's all over the map. So you have to go to the latest technology and understand, because the latest technology recognizes the problems with past technologies. And if, if you're just adopting a technology that's it's going to be obsolete right away, it's just going to put you further back. So looking for your solutions.
And you know, it's like, well, the car analogy, someone has to drive it, you know, and you can. So it's the, it's not the tool that is the solution. It's the application of the tool.
And the consequences are based upon the implications of the tool.
So, you know, it's, there is, there's help out there and there's a lot of government assistance. Like we, we focus on, you know, finding out how can this get paid for? Because we're, we're finding there's so, so much from government grants to, you know, to assistance because they recognize that the changes coming are fast and furious. And you have to, you know, you're going to have to keep up, but it's not even keeping up anymore. It's like you've got to look to where it's going and find a different path to get there rather than following that typical path of adoption. So everything's changed, but it's not as complex once you go down to the core route of how did we get here? Why is this happening? What are the implications of what we're doing? And with analytics now, I mean, you can say, okay, this path is going to get you here. That's not where you want to go. So the, the newest thing out there right now that, because most people are looking at analytics and looking at, I mean, prescriptive analytics is the, is the current answer. It's like saying, okay, if you do this, this, this, this will be your trajectory and it's going to get you. But if you are just looking at descriptive analytics, which seems to be, you know, okay, this is where you are. Okay, that's good. You need to do that. And then you look at predictive analytics. Okay, that's, that's going to get me here. That's not where I want to go. So then you got to prescribe to Prescriptive, which involves an AI, you know, can take all of this information and say, well, here's the answer. If you do this, this, this and this, it's going to get you on the right trajectory. So you can't look at data as a snapshot. You have to look at trend lines and how you change those trend lines, lines. And, and so there's a lot. And, and it all begins just with Conversations. You know, that's why I really appreciated, you know, coming on your podcast, because you and I have always talked about stuff like this, Right. And. But I've never seen in my whole career the acceleration like I'm seeing now. And there seems to be a lack of urgency, which in this day and age could be fatal.
[00:36:30] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, you can't. With the way that things are going, you can't sit back and just, you know, wait and watch things unfold and then plot your course, because with how quickly things are changing when you're like, okay, everyone's adopting that. I'm gonna adopt that. Well, while you're busy adopting and implementing that, like you said, the next thing's already coming, and the next thing is correcting the problems with the thing that you're about to adopt. Right. I think that's a really good point. Actually. The picture that came to my. I think in analogies, the picture that came to my mind when you were explaining that as I thought of football, right? You don't throw the ball to where the player is on the field. You throw the ball to where they're going. And so you really need to understand which direction is this thing moving, what is that trend, like you talked about, and get out ahead of the curve as much as you can. I think that's a. That's a really good point. And I really liked what you said about analytics as well, because I think for a lot of marketers and a lot of business people, we tend to look at analytics as that snapshot, right? It's like, okay, we're here. Let's look at the data that showed us how we got here, right? This happened, and then this happened, and then this happened. But a lot of us don't use the data to do those projections and see where are we headed if this continues, where are we going to wind up at? And I think that's a really good point. What I often see in the industry, and it comes from seasonality, it comes from inventory levels, it comes from interest rates, is a lot of the times home builders are very reactive to what's happening in the market. You know, you talk to them at the beginning of the year or at the Q4 of the previous year, and they're like, we're going to do this many homes this year. And then you talk to them, you know, at the end of Q2 or going into Q3, and they're moving their adjustments and they're sliding their forecast because they're not on target, right? And I think it's understanding.
You need to look backwards and understand, okay, how did we end up here, what happened? But you also need to be looking forward as well and trying to understand, like how can we course correct along the way, looking how we got here, but changing our approach so that we're changing that, that trajectory, moving forward. Right?
[00:38:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's, I mean, I, I find it invigorating. But you, you just, you know, because you have to embrace change. You know, you, you can't look at it and, and change is, is, no, it's not a one time event. Like change is constant. And so you cannot just look and say, okay, we changed, we completed this and we're here.
No, your job's not, your job's never done, especially in the climate we're in now.
And being adaptable really is the key. But adaptability has to come from the recognition of here's where we are. And that's, you know, I guess that's our primary focus is saying, okay, here's where you are. Like, we'll do an analysis and say, this is where you are.
Where do you want to get to? What do you want to do? You know, the benefits of some of the tools come in scalability.
Like, you know, you can scale so much different. Like you're not looking at AI and, and a lot of these tools as replacement. You're looking more as an augmentation or an enhancement in what you currently have. It's, you know, I put it into, I talk about leverage and it's leveraging technology.
You know, just with HubSpot, for example, well, you can respond to 100 clients in the same time it takes you to respond to one.
And you know, and the consistency of your message has to be there because we're all branding, you know, and people are looking for those digitally savvy companies that understand them, the consumer, so that you're just laying down breadcrumbs for them to, to follow the path. And then when they discover that your path is the easiest path, that's all they want. They just want ease. They don't want pressure. Like you said, they don't want to be sold. You know, I, I think that, you know, they might want confirmation, but you can summarize everything, you know, the steps that they've gone through. And that comes from real time business intelligence.
So it's not about adding tools to your arsenal. It's, it isn't. Because the more disconnected you are, if you got a bunch of tools operating in silos, you're you can't even use that data.
And, and so, you know, it's garbage in, garbage out. Like, if you have high quality data, you know, that's the first thing. One of the first things we looked at, you know, at one of the builders, is what is the quality of our data and how are people entering at the data points. And if there's variations in how they're entering, then it doesn't matter how much data you have if it's bad data. And, and so we focus on, you know, like this synchronicity in systems because systems need to work together and you can't just add a tool because it's the latest and greatest thing. If it doesn't work well, you know, there's tools that don't play well in the sandbox, you know, and, and it's understanding what your system will take and how it will work with the other components in your system. And if it doesn't work well, then that creates another problem or an obstacle because of the fact that there's a disconnect there. And so it's, it's really looking at things systematically, having a plan. But you can't have a plan unless you know where you are. It's like you go to the mall and it says you are here. Well, you got to first know where you are before you're going to get to where you want to go.
[00:43:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:02] Speaker B: And, and then you chart your course. And with the tools that exist, charting your course is, is, I mean, it's amazing what you can do, you know, with, with some of these tools. So how do you enhance yourself? How do you leverage yourself? You know, one person, it's proven now, can do the job of 10 if they're using the tools correctly. And it's not that that person is 10 times as smart or 10 times as capable. It's just that they're leveraging the, the tools that exist in the right way. And that's where obsolescence will come from. It's not from the tools themselves. It's from the lack of understanding of the tools.
[00:43:45] Speaker A: Oh, that's such a good point. That's such a good point. Yeah. And I, I just want to touch on something you said too, because it, it really resonates with me and I see it a lot. And that's the garbage in, garbage out. Right. And talking about data and I think one of the, one of the common mistakes I see a lot of the time is salespeople not entering data into the CRM system and then management recognizing that, but not mandating it. Right. A really great example of that is demographic information. Like when we set up HubSpot for a home builder, we have a whole demographic section where that salesperson can start filling in things like age ranges and family status and, and that's, you know, stage of life and children's age ranges and, and that sort of thing. And a lot of people that we talk to are like, well, why is that really important? And I said, well, it's not important to the salesperson, right. Like if, if that person, I mean to some degree it is because you have to sell them a home that's going to be the good fit for that family. But tracking and recording all that information in a CRM system probably isn't as valuable for them. But who it's really valuable for is the marketing team. Because when you understand like in this particular community or for this particular model of home, the majority of our buyers are, you know, a young couple with, you know, a preschool age child. Well, now you can adjust and change your marketing messaging to resonate with that buyer Persona. When you know that 65 to 70% of the people that are buying in this community fall into that bucket, you modify your marketing and you modify your messaging to resonate and hit an emotional connection with those people. But if you're not recording that data, you would never know that. Right. And so I think that that's really important.
[00:45:42] Speaker B: I have to thank you. It was you who, who introduced me to HubSpot because I had looked at a number of CRMs and, and, and HubSpot has changed the way that, that I do so much. You know, just like the tools within HubSpot, like it's, it's like a Ferrari, you know, going back to the car analogy, but we're not city driving, you know, like, like take the Ferrari on the Autobahn or something like that. Like it's. But the tools, like I've seen builders without CRMs, but I've also seen builders using CRMs like a glorified Rolodex. And you know, it does so much more just you talking about Personas, you know, even the tool within HubSpot of progressive profiling, you know, it's like learn about your customer, everything about them. Learn. You know what, because you take an interest in them, you understand them so that your message actually speaks to them. And also understand that you can't be everything to everyone. Like you got to pick your lane in terms of builders. There's builders that. And there's a fallacy out there. That between production and custom builders. Well, you can't be both. Like, you can't be a production custom builder, you know, is, it's kind of an oxymoron. You know, you just, you have to kind of pick your lane so that you can serve that segment of the market better. And often we have and we talk about data, you know, and I, I'll illustrate a story. A little while ago that, you know, well, not a little while ago, a number of years ago, it was quite, it was quite evident that there was a lack of inventory in townhomes and, and duplex more so the townhomes.
And so just like the, the book zap the gap, everyone zapped it at the same time.
So within a couple years there was a dramatic oversupply of that inventory.
So it's not that, you know, you have to look at, everyone's going to be looking at overall data that comes from other sources and respond to that. You have to look at your own data and your own path and design your structure around what it is that you want to do. Because it's not all encompassing. Like it's, you have to, you have to figure out. That's why specialization, you know, has really taken off that, you know, you have because the, the, I guess the knowledge base within those specializations, if someone has a passion for something specific, they'll further that than someone who has just an overarching concern of all of these different technologies.
And so what we do is we look at and find out who's the best in this space and we make recommendations. It's not that, you know, at RCT build, we build websites, okay, that's not our job. But we understand what a website does and what it needs and how that has to work with your whole system. And it has to be centered around the consumer. So you need real time information for that. And there has to be more transparency in this day and age because that's what customers are looking for. Like what's the real story here? Well, the real story here is your delivery time on the home should be this not telling them something they want to hear or you hope is going to happen. But if you have real time data that shows that, okay, based upon our scheduling, based upon, you know, the whole system, you, you should be in here. But we'll be able to update you at all relevant milestones and you can automate that whole process. You know, I mean the automated workflows that exist in HubSpot, I mean these are all designed in. And I mean this sounds Like a HubSpot commercial. But it's, it's just one of those tools that understands what it is that they do and they do it well. And there's other ones too. I'm not saying the obstot's the only one. I mean, Salesforce has always furthered their cause. And, and you know, I'm not saying switch over your system, but make sure that it works with the other components is. Is what I'm saying.
[00:50:35] Speaker A: So yeah, and I think further to that too is just.
Well, not further than that, but coming back to the importance of that data collection and creating that usable data. Like when you said buyer Personas, I got a little excited because that's a part of what I do that I'm really into. And it's taking that data that you collect along, along those sales and through all of those different transactions and building out that long term buyer's journey. Right. Like, we all know that nobody wakes up on a Saturday morning and goes, our host doesn't really work for us anymore. And then by the end of the day they've signed a contract that it never happens. Right. It takes many months, in some cases years for somebody to buy a home. And what I'm really passionate about is lead nurturing. Like it's easy to generate a lead, but how do we stay front of mind with that person through that buying journey? Like through our own research, we've identified that there's 19 different decision points, sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on the buyer Persona. But there's like 19 different decision points or milestones that somebody goes through on that buying journey. And at every single one of those decision points, they can go further down the resale path or further down the buying new path. And with the progressive profiling like you were talking about, the more you learn about them, the more, the more that you can start to understand what is the optimal piece of content to put in front of them that's going to give them the research or the information that they need for that stage of what they're researching and also influence them in a positive way towards the benefits of buying a new home. Right. And without collecting that data, without doing that profiling and having everything stored centrally in a database in a CRM system, you would never be able to build something like that. But there's real power in understanding who is it that is buying our homes and what are their needs, what are their challenges, what are their objections, what are the things they're skeptical about and helping to using content and automation and data to start to reshape that belief system and make them feel comfortable about the purchase that they're about to make. Make them feel empowered and keep them, you know, engaged for the 6 months or the 12 months or however long it takes for them to make that buying decision. Because when you do that, you're not pushing them in front of a salesperson. You're not selling them. Right.
You're allowing them to buy. But you're the obvious choice because you've understood them and been relevant to the conversation in their head that whole time. And without that data collection and without, you know, specific tools, you'd never be able to do that.
[00:53:30] Speaker B: You know, I mean, really strong points. I totally agree. Like, you have to, in my opinion, you have to be seen more as a resource.
And when you're a resource, they keep coming back to you because you're always giving with no hook. You know, it's like, you know, here's the information, you know, do with what you want. But understanding that most buying decisions start with pain, dissatisfaction first. And the more they become dissatisfied, dissatisfied with their current living situation, you need to understand why they're becoming deceptive because, you know, it is an emotional buy too, at the end of the day. But you can't sell them the wrong thing because, you know, you can't get them excited about something that doesn't solve their needs. And you've got to first look at all of their needs. You got to solve the needs first and then delve into the wants. Because, I mean, if you get some of the wants but not all of the needs, you're doing them a disservice. And you have to look at it, you know, from the consumer perspective that if you believe that you're offering the right solution and if they don't buy from you, you're doing them a disservice because you understand their needs better. And when you pay attention to them and you point this out in the content that you produce, it's like, oh, they get me. You know, they really understand me. And that's what it's about. It's not about you, the builder, or, you know, like, how much. I mean, yes, we are sales and profit motivated, but you're going to be more successful if you have happy, content people that buy your homes because you paid attention.
Sometimes the best thing that you can do is say, we don't have the right solution for you.
[00:55:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:55:41] Speaker B: You know, and not trying to close them, which is, in my opinion, you know, closing is a very negative vernacular. It's just you know, it's like that door is closed, and consumers feel that, that, you know, it's like, what happens after I buy? How well am I informed? What's the service like? And the tools right now that are coming out are so valuable on that that you maintain. It's about maintaining that relationship for life. Even if they're not going to buy your product, they're probably going to recommend a friend, say, hey, you got to go talk to these people, and that, you know, those people, when they come in, they already feel that you're a good builder. They feel that because someone that they value told them about their experience.
So it's, it's like, don't ignore the people that, that come to your site. They might be coming for someone else. I mean, the, the long and short of it is that you, you never know who the decision maker is.
You never know how much, you know, an outside influence has. You know, their opinion weighs on the overall buying decision of someone else. So, and sometimes you're going to, you're going to get some objections that to you don't make sense. But the objections might be coming from another Persona. Right? So you got to take everything into consideration and understand who's the buyer. And there's really good ways of pointing that out, you know, and that's just summarizing, just saying, well, you know, I agree with that point. But based on this, this and this, you know, this fit, I think would be the best. And, you know, and here's my rationale behind that. And, you know, you can never be confrontational.
You just have to, you know, just show customers that you actually care.
Sounds simple, but it's like, if you care, you're going to provide the best possible service. And if that service comes from the adoption of better tools, then you're just serving your customer more. And your understanding of this digital transformation, if it's not right now totally there, move towards it. You'll find that it'll unfold. And it's not as complex as, you know, as you previously thought. Like, I had to go through a number of years of, of asking stupid questions. And the, the reality is there's no stupid questions. Like, you know, if it's on your mind, you got to get it out there. And in the technology industry, we have this, this problem of speaking in acronyms all the time. And if you just actually say what it means, it's like, oh, okay, I can understand that. But, you know, I mean, I don't understand API and I don't understand CRM. And I don't understand cms and I don't. Like, we. Who are we talking to? Like. Like, understand where they're coming from.
[00:59:03] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a really good point. I remember early on in my career I learned really quickly that you can't speak in acronyms. Right. One of the ones that pops up, and it still pops up today is talking about SEO. Right. And so I've really tried to hone my practice over, you know, the last number of years so that maybe I'll mention an acronym. But then I'm like, what that means is.
And then like, fill in the blank. Right. And try to get them to. To understand that way. I see builders do it, too. Sometimes you'll be on a website and you're like, oh, there's. There's some industry jargon on this. On this. Like even talking about.
One of the things that we go out and do in the edmonton marketplace is we do show home secret shops, video secret shops. And they're a lot of fun. Right. But you walk into a show home and. And pose yourself as being a prospective buyer. And then I just listen to a lot of the jargon that they share. And one of the ones that comes up all the time is they're like, oh, it's a zero lot line. And I. My favorite question is like, what is that? What does that mean? Right. Because it's. And I think salespeople, builders, everybody in every industry to some degree forgets that when you're talking to a lay person, they don't necessarily know what that stuff means. Right. So you got to kind of break it down and. And help them to understand it.
[01:00:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And it doesn't help, you know, you. I mean, to the. To the consumer, that sounds like a negative, you know, word, but it really just, you know, if you get into explaining that, what it means is that they're shifting the house over to the property line on one side, but the house beside it is shifted over to that property line. So you still have space between the units. It's just structured different.
[01:00:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:00:50] Speaker B: You know, and.
But it's, you know, I mean, it's a reduced property line, but it's a single detached house. You know, it's still. It's still that. So anyways. Yeah, there's. There's so much that you. You got to break it down into bite sized chunks and, you know, it's like the. The eating an elephant.
You know, it's one bite at a time and you just. You can't let the fact that you fear Something cause you to avoid it. Because today, in order to be relevant, you know, unless you're getting close to retirement, I think that that might be an issue with some, you know, some companies that, well, you know, I'm just feathering my nest because I'm not going to be in the industry, so I'm not going to learn it. Well, how productive are you those last few years then? Like, I mean, I think from a Personal satisfaction or gratification is just understanding something just gives you that comfort level that's a little bit more and it's not overwhelming. Just begin at the beginning. Don't try and jump into anything and don't ever overestimate what, you know. Because I got into some conversations on LinkedIn where I was out of my depth and, and struggled to keep up and I realized, okay, I mean, I, you know, it's like sometimes GPT, depending on the prompt, it's going to try and come up with an answer even if that answer is not right, you know, so you can't just formulate and just say, okay, this is, you know, this is my, my take and, and not fully understand it. So it's, you know, life is an education and we just have to, we just have to wanna learn. I, I think that that's the biggest point is you, you just gotta start and say, I don't really understand that and I think it's in my best interest to, to learn about it.
Where do I begin? And I think that that's where we come into play is let's start at the beginning. It begins with a conversation, you know, I've had to adjust, I guess my, my talking style and talk more about augmentation and, and collaboration and enhancing people's ability rather than this, you know, this kind of, we're all going to be replaced.
You know, that's, that's scary. And, but it's not that you're, you're gonna, you're, you're not going to be replaced if you learn to use the new tools and, and the new tools are coming out essentially daily.
So you can't just jump on tools as the solution. You know, it's, there's a chart that I saw a long time ago that has stuck with me and it's, and it begins. So it's mindset, skill set, tool set.
And you have to first have the mindset to learn the skill set to be able to use the tool set. And I think that one of the biggest mistakes is that people jump to the tools as the solution. Oh, yeah, and it's just the wrong way of thinking it. You know, you have to first understand what they will do and why you need them and what's happened in our marketplace to make themselves so urgent. And the other thing is lack of urgency. Do not have a lack of urgency because I mean, this is a wave, this is a tsunami, and you need to prepare. And the way to prepare is to get to higher ground. And higher ground is understanding.
[01:05:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, that's, that's a great analogy.
[01:05:15] Speaker B: So, so we've gotta, we've got, just gotta try and say, okay, geez, I don't know really anything about this and say, well, let's just talk about where you are now, what you're using, how that helps. And I can gain an understanding of where you're at and then make recommendations. And if you want, I can help you with a digital transformation strategy, because you need a strategy because otherwise it's like you can't just hire people to deal with things that you don't understand. If you're a senior executive, you need to have the basic grasp of the concepts and the philosophies that drive this change. And that's pretty critical. And I've seen people that just shy away from it. And the worst answer is I don't really understand it and I'm not really interested in learning it. It like that.
That is, you are ensuring your obsolescence or your irrelevance. And there's nothing worse than being completely irrelevant, especially if you have the best website and it's, you know, it's completely relevant and then you do something that's completely contrary to it. Like you, like the, the, the adept consumer is, is much, I wouldn't say higher educated, but they, you know, they're more aware that they're capable of making decisions based upon information as long as you're giving them information that is at the place that they're at. And I don't know if that makes sense, but you gotta, you gotta speak to someone where they are, not where they need to be, you know, and, or not where they were, and just get them to understand that if you learn 1% of a topic, especially in digital transformation, you're ahead of more than 80% of the people.
So it's like, so 1% might be, you know, just, I mean, it's, it's scratching the surface, but, you know, you need to scratch the surface to get below it. And once you start getting below it, you go, oh, this is interesting. And once you take an interest in it, Then you know what, the journey's begun. And it's a journey. So, and it's a fun journey. Like, it's, it's like, wow, you can enhance your abilities. One of the things that we work with is, as you know, our digital computer generated avatars and, and creating like I have an avatar of myself that I talk to, which sounds strange, but it's, you know, the, the digital avatar itself is a shell and it's what you put into that shell. But then, you know, I have an avatar of myself that's connected to different databases. That's way smarter than me.
But it, it understands like I do, the basic concepts of it. And, and from that point place, it can formulate, you know, so much. So you can help yourself by leveraging these technologies and enhancing the people that you have. If you've got great people, augment them, enhance their abilities because then they have more time to think. You know, it's like so much of our time is spent in doing tasks that, you know, they're important. You know, I'm not like doing the tasks, but what if you didn't have to do the task? What if you could focus on the next task?
Then, then all of a sudden you're leveraging the technology so there's no longer one of you, there's like 10 of you.
[01:09:33] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, I get that a lot when I'm talking with builders, they talk to me. One of the common questions, especially when it comes to content, they're like, oh, do you use AI? I'm like, absolutely.
And some people, people take that differently, right? Some people get excited about it and other people are like, oh. And it's funny because the analogy that I always use is a really skilled framer can do an incredible job with a hammer and nails, and a really skilled framer with a hammer and nails can do a better job than somebody who's never framed a home but has a pneumatic nailer, right? But you give that pneumatic nailer to that skilled framer. Holy smokes. Is he gonna like, production's gonna go through the roof, right? And when I look at AI, like our, our entire team, every role on our team uses AI tools all the time. We're constantly training on them. We're constantly learning how to do like they're, they're all becoming better, prompt engineers all the time, right? And I tell a lot of our team now, I'm like, even, like, even Google searching stuff. I go to Claude AI or chat GPT meta AI is also really good Claude's kind of my current favorite one that I'm using, but you can go to any one of those tools and what you would normally search for in Google, just put it into that and it'll just tell you. And now I don't even have to go in and out of the top 10 search results when I'm trying to figure something out. Right. But like, as it applies to content, we use a lot of these tools.
Jasper AI is the one tool that we really love because it has all those programmable knowledge snippets and database sets where you can put in like information about the builder and where they build and what models they have and what their ideal customers look like. And we spend a lot of time programming this AI tool to really have an in depth knowledge of the client that we're working with so that when we have to create blog content, it's speaking from a point of knowledge of their business and who they're trying to attract and sell to. Right. But using a tool like that for our writing team, it allows us to get that messy first draft done in light at lightning speed so that we can then spend more time practicing the craft of copywriting and actually, you know, massaging that article to really just sing beautifully and really deliver that message clearly. So a lot of people I think when it comes to, especially when it comes to content, they're like, well, I don't need to have somebody on my team that does content or I don't need to work with an agency to create content. I can just dump it all into ChatGPT and hit the button and then just copy it onto my website. And what we're actually seeing now with that is Neil Patel was talking about this just a little while ago, is that Google search rankings are starting to be able to pick up the subtle patterns in AI content and they are ranking that down now. So search engine optimization or search engine rankings are starting to slip. If you've got a lot of just like spit out AI content on your website. But the point that I was trying to make in all that, and it was just to kind of further what you were saying, like when you give somebody on your team who's a really good team member an even more powerful tool and they understand how to leverage that tool, their output and what they're capable of goes through the roof, right?
[01:13:11] Speaker B: Yeah. And then that's what people need to understand is that, I mean, it's, you know, you can enhance your already great abilities so that, so that you have more time to spend I mean, robotic process automation has been around for a long time. And, and I mean, it's, it's more of a buzzword for work, automated workflows. Right. You know, but it simplifies things. And the customer, at the end of the day gets communicated to like the biggest complaint that customers have, bar one, is lack of communication.
And so communication really is key. But like, you're talking about content.
AI doesn't always get the context right, you know, and that's going to come from you, like, how do you want to speak? And you touched on prompt engineering. You know, there's now certification programs in prompt engineering. You know, it's really an interesting field because, like, I don't mind that people use AI to produce documents as long as they're relevant, you know, and because the ideas have to come from you and the questions have to come from you. Like you're asking the questions. So how intelligently are you asking the questions? Like what, what context? Because I've, I've done prompts that are two pages long, you know, of a prompt so that I can get specific content and then I'll look and, and adjust it and make some, make some changes to it. So, you know, it's a question of the context in which it's used.
What's, what was relevant in a lot of cases is still relevant, but you got to kind of pick out those. It's like that communication is always going to be relevant, but a lot of times the, the consumer doesn't necessarily care where it comes from just as long as they're in the know, you know, like, so that's where AI bots, which I love, because an AI bot can talk to someone and have all the relevant information if it's connected to the right data, but if it's connected to the wrong data, it's, it's, it's going to tell you stuff that's fictitious. You know, I mean, if you, if you download into AI all of this information that is completely based on, say, a conspiracy theory, it's going to validate that, you know, it's going to create something based upon the prompts. So can you trust everything you read and hear? And. No, but when you're connected to a database that's accurate, you will never deceive or lie to someone. You'll give them, as long as you're open to the transparency. See, sometimes we try and hide the fact that, oh, gosh, I don't want to tell them the real story because then they'll get mad and at the end of the day, when they are mad, they say, if you would have just told me the real story, like, let's just, you know, let's actually care about them because there's so much preparation. Buying a home is the biggest decision that the majority of us will make.
And, you know, and it's an investment. It's. It's got to be, you know, you want quality, you want fairness, but when you ask a customer what's your number one thing, it's not price.
It's because if you want, you know, bare bones price, well, I can get you this house, but that won't include the carpet or the cabinets, because you can actually buy houses that are finished to just a certain point, you know, and then it comes to sweat equity, which opens another can of worms. But, but the point is that if you care about the consumer, you're going to provide them accurate information. And if you can provide them accurate information in real time, they love you.
And, you know, and it's, it's got to be because it emphasizes the fact that you care. You've got nothing to hide. Here's my schedule. Well, if an AI bot is hooked to your schedule, it can say, okay, here's. Here's where your house is at today. We're waiting on this, this and this. And then. And you know, so that's because there's going to be hiccups along the way. Just tell them what the hiccups are. You know, we've run into a hiccup here.
Scheduling systems, you know, that's one of the things we're working on right now is scheduling systems. Because when one person does not comply with the schedule, it affects everyone after them.
And that causes roughly about a month and a half delay can come from one scheduling inefficiency. And if you set it up, like blockchain, for example, where everything's timestamped and everyone's on the same system, all your trades, then you know who's delayed it. Like, it's also, you know, oh, gosh, you said you could do this and you can't now. But then it can automatically reschedule everything so that it's only a minimal delay. Like, it's. We, we want to create less work for people, not more work. And they see that learning it is more work.
Well, but it's going to save you time down the road. You have to buy into a little bit of delayed gratification. Gratification sometimes, like put in the work to get you where you need to be so that tomorrow is easier.
[01:19:10] Speaker A: So Brent, you and I love talking about tools and tech. So what do you see as being the top three areas that builders should be looking at right now as far as the new tools that are coming out? I know there's a myriad of different tools in all different areas, but what do you see as probably the top three things that a builder should be keeping an eye on right now?
[01:19:31] Speaker B: I think the CMS or the website is going to change dramatically. Like it's got to be just talking to the people.
So then you know, comes. So it's not just one thing. See within that is also AI bots which people get afraid of. I want to talk to a real person. Well, you can talk to a real person. They'll get back to to you in two days and some will never get back to you.
But if you can talk real time and explain why this is relevant information.
So I think that the use of those tools, integrations, you need to make sure that what you're using is integratable with the other components of your system. Otherwise you can never have an ecosystem.
So there's a lot of components, but the components have to be plug and play and it begins with your CMS or your website.
But you know, CRMs, if you're not using a CRM currently, you need to be, but you need to know how well that syncs up with the rest of your system and how accurate your data is. There's a lot of data tools that I'd recommend. One is Sisense, one is Tableau that give you data visualizations that really help you to see. Because I no longer see numbers, I see trends.
And the thing to understand is if you see the trend of where you're going, you can adjust that trend or trajectory to where you want to go.
And so AI infused prescriptive analytics, big, big, big tool. But you need to have strong data architects that understand because it, you first have to clean your data and understand because data is going to tell you it's the crystal ball, you know, and, but not only that, it's a time machine because you can actually change where you're going now. You can change your future and you know, wrapping your head around that is, it's interesting, you know, but having, just having the conversations. The first thing you need to do is discover where you are.
Like, like honestly look at where you are and then from there build a plan. Yeah, because irrelevance is happening fast like X, like when you look at the trajectory of innovation.
So I don't know if you can catch my hand here. It was kind of going like this, and now it's going like this. And now it's going like this. It's going straight up. What does that mean? Does that mean the technological singularity is near?
You know, that can be a good thing as long as there's symbiosis between the digital and the natural. And by embracing it and saying, it's like the cat is out of the bag, it's here, you know, and. And you have to just try and understand the benefits of it and talk about the benefits of it. Don't focus on the fears of it, because the fears will push you away. Saying, oh, I, you know, I'm not comfortable in this space. Well, you know, what we always learn through discomfort, and discomfort is facing the brutal facts. Facts. Like, the brutal facts are this. Once you do that, it's like, oh, okay, it's not. It's not as bad as I thought it was.
In fact, I should slow my adoption of this and move right over to this, because by the time I'm up to speed on this adoption, it's going to be irrelevant anyways.
So.
[01:23:46] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good point.
[01:23:48] Speaker B: I think the biggest thing, Jeff, is education, you know, and a lot of it's self education, whether it's watching YouTube videos or. Or podcasts. A lot of great podcasts out there, you know, that. That really provide specific information on what you want to learn and. And they're helpful. So. But having an, you know, that's why I'm working on right now a course on introduction to Digital transformation.
It deals with how did we get here? Where were we? We're here. Where's it going? And how do I get to where it's going, and. And how do I line myself with this transformation?
So, you know, you've got to begin there. And it's a basic understanding. Like, just talk about concepts, talk about, you know, the reasons for it. Not just, you know, don't talk about the tools. Like, what does that tool do? And how will it interact with what you currently have? I think too few people look at the implications of things and, you know, like, the future is here now, and it's in the implication of current events. It's like you just got to extrapolate that out to say, okay, what's the. What's the story here? And how does this unfold? And how do I embrace it, be part of it, and, and use this, you know, augmentation and, and these. These tools to make us better, but better for who better for the consumer, better for the customer?
[01:25:34] Speaker A: Like, well, and if you make it better for the consumer, better for the customer, ultimately you, as the business wins, right? Like, if you think about HubSpot talks about the growth flywheel all the time. And when you truly understand the growth flywheel, what you come to realize is that your happy clients, the customers that you have delighted, are the ones that become an evangelist for your business. They're the easiest one to get reviews from. They're the easiest ones to get testimonials from. And those are the ones when people are like, because everyone loves to show off their new home, right? What's one of the first things we do when we're moved into a new home and we're settled in and we've, you know, we're all unpacked, we have a housewarming party, right? Or we invite our friends and family over to our house. So what was it? Who built your home? Oh, such and such builders. What was that experience like? It was amazing.
Like, it was such a great experience. I knew every step of the way what was coming, you know, and they will rant and rave about it. And then if the builder has a referral program on top of that, where you're like, hey, you know what? You let someone know, and if they come and buy a home from us, we'll kick you back a couple thousand dollars. Like, that in turn, increases the momentum of that flywheel, and those evangelists attract more strangers for you. And from a marketing perspective, that is the ultimate form of marketing. But it's not something that us as marketers can purchase. Right? We can't purchase that. We have to create an experience that results in that, which I think is a part that a lot of marketers sometimes overlook. We want that, but we don't know how to connect the dots to achieve. Achieve that. Right?
[01:27:18] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that one of the biggest problems that I've witnessed firsthand and seen is there's, there's a lot of people that really show the glitz and the, and, and the, the lipstick and, and all of these things. But they, what they do is they over promise and under deliver. And, and I think it's got to be exact opposite. Like, you've got to under promise and under over deliver, like exceed people's expectations. Like, you need to wow your customers and you do that by speaking their language, by understanding who they are, by taking an interest that you're listening to them and you listen through, gathering information about them like we talked about, through, you know, like Getting all of this information into a database. So, because you talk about the housewarming. Well, who's coming to the housewarming? Friends. Well, friends are like them, and friends, you know, want to be closer together with friends. So there's so much opportunity from a positive experience, but a negative experience, like, if it's just about, okay, the market's really good. Let's take as much as we can without considering your component capacities. Like, this happens all the time, and it gives a lot of people a bad reputation. So. So really be realistic. The, the problem that a lot of people think is, well, if I'm realistic, then they won't buy from me.
I, I don't understand that, you know, that thought process, but that's an actual thought out there that, well, I don't want to tell them the truth because why would they ever by with. If they know that I'm going to be like, at least six months past what I said I'm going to be. Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna spin that, you know, as long as I can until say, oh, geez, I was misinformed. And then you throw someone else from your team under the bus.
[01:29:21] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, that has such a far greater negative impact on your business than it does to just, you know, eat some crow and say, hey, you know what, we've had an unfortunate, you know, scheduling issue and this is what we're looking at now. Yeah, you know, or whatever. I know you used to be.
[01:29:40] Speaker B: I, I know you've talked about this a lot. Givers get.
And it's about like, you know, constantly giving. You tap into the rule of reciprocation, for one, that if you're actually giving without an expectation, you know, like, that's why I say if you can set up your, your website as a resource for information, you know, what do I need to know about the legal aspects? What do I need to know about these? Like. Like your FAQ section, frequently asked question section should be automated, in my opinion, with a real time bot that actually has all that programmed in. Because people would rather talk to people. Even if it's not a real person, it still gives that comfort that, that, you know, they're listening because we're taking that information, transcribing it and putting it right into your CRM.
[01:30:40] Speaker A: If you look at technology too, some of the biggest trends that are coming along are convenience factors. Like, I don't want to read it, I would rather watch it, or I would rather somebody read it to me. Right. Like, what can we do to save time and make things more convenient. And I think that that is an area where a lot of builders should be focusing on as well. Like you were saying with the FAQ section, if, if I had a bot that I could just like send a voice command to and be like, tell me about the build process, summarize the build process. What are the milestones and how long does it take or you know, for that customer that's already purchased a home, you know, where's my home at today? Oh, well, you know, this is what's currently going on. This and this is on order and you know, this, this next step of the process is scheduled for Tuesday. Right. Like so powerful.
[01:31:26] Speaker B: One of your future shows should be inviting one of these bots to your podcast. And you know, like whether it's a service assistant, like these are all assistants and, and, and the, at the end of the day, this is why I like the replication factor is the real person who is that, you know, that say that service person, when you do have a face to face, it's the same person and it's that person who's helped write the algorithms for that person. I, I mean this is delving again down a different rabbit hole. But it's like you have to be minimal at minimal. An early adopter.
[01:32:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:32:15] Speaker B: But ideally an innovator because if you wait for things to be tried, tested, proven, off the shelf, you're going to miss the boat. Like it's got it and there is no one size fits all solution. It depends on who you are as a builder. Like who are you trying to be and what are you currently working with that we can enhance. Not, it's not about an about face. Like a lot of these builders have built up great reputations. There's a lot of great builders out there and, and then there's a lot of copycats and then there's a lot of people that are, are just about the demand, you know, and, and it's, it's about the consumer. It's about, it's about maintaining customers for life. It's like after sales, service can be so, so much better.
[01:33:05] Speaker A: Oh yeah.
[01:33:06] Speaker B: And I think that that's an area that, that needs improvement for sure.
[01:33:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I'd agree with you there, Brent. We have covered a massive amount of, of information around digital transformation today. I've really enjoyed this. Thank you so much for sharing so much knowledge that you've acquired over the years and, and sharing with us where you are now going down this new path path for those people that want to reach out to you so that you can help them with their why and help give them a starting point in this journey of digital transformation.
What are the best ways for people to reach you, Brent?
[01:33:44] Speaker B: Well, I mean, you know what, funny enough, LinkedIn is actually a good, good place for me. You know, I, I quite comfortable there, had a lot of discussions, learned a lot, you know, through my interactions on LinkedIn. But even just going to rctbuilt.com people can register, and when they register, they become part of, you know, a subscription of, of what I produce. As far as content, I haven't produced too much because I've been working on a couple of tools we're developing, but they can reach. Reach me through there where I can, we can interact and I can send them my, my direct emails and things like that. So. So either my website or LinkedIn.
And I, and I like connecting with people on LinkedIn.
Depends on your intentions.
If it's collaboration, beautiful. If it's to sell me something. And that's okay.
[01:34:43] Speaker A: I think we're all kind of feeling that way.
[01:34:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:34:47] Speaker A: That's wonderful, Brent. This has been a really awesome conversation. I, you and I could, I mean, I think we're almost two hours of recording time, longest one yet. And I know that we easily could have gone another hour or two, but I always enjoy picking your brain and, and it's just exciting to see you at the forefront of this world of digital transformation. And yeah, just a lot of takeaways and a lot of really good information here for people that are kind of starting down this journey today.
Just wanted to thank the audience for tuning in. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe to the podcast, share it with a colleague. We're new, we're just trying to build up the audience and get the word out there. We've got a lot of great segments coming up. Of course, in between every one of my guest interviews, we always do a digital marketing segment and we also do a HubSpot Hacks for Home builders segment. So keep an eye out for those. And I've got some exciting guests coming down the pipeline, so thanks again for tuning in. Appreciate your time. Take care, everyone.
[01:35:55] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks, everyone. Thank you to Jeff. Appreciate it. Always easy to talk to you. I always valued our discussions and learned a lot, so thanks and I'm sure we'll be talking soon.
[01:36:07] Speaker A: Thanks, Brent. Appreciate it.
[01:36:09] Speaker B: Take care.
[01:36:09] Speaker A: Take care.
